My '72 P6 V8 is back in use on UK roads and once again wearing its silver on black 'K' plates!
- Thread starter mrtask
- Start date
mrtask
Well-Known Member
Re: The optimist
Today was a bank holiday here in Germany, and I finally managed to cajole my mate into coming round to my lock-up and giving me a hand putting my donor vehicle's engine and box into my restoration project. Couldn't have done it on my own. I had to let the engine hoist down gently in small increments whilst my mate guided the transmission into the tunnel without it all swinging and banging into anything. Almost went without a scratch. In fact we made two miniscule little paint scratches (where nobody will ever look at the back of the engine bay!) but it went in okay. Nerve-wracking, having all that weight suspended so high to get it over the bonnet slam panel, then coaxing it down and into place without snagging/bending anything! Had to put the front of the car on axles stands as well as the rear end, because the front wheels of the engine crane were too wide to shove between the front wheels of the car.
To what NM should I tighten the three bolts holding the gearbox crossmember in the tunnel?
Had to look after SWMBO this afternoon, but now I'm looking forward to getting on with assembling all the rest of it, I can tell you! Feels like I've overcome the biggest hurdle. I hope so!
Today was a bank holiday here in Germany, and I finally managed to cajole my mate into coming round to my lock-up and giving me a hand putting my donor vehicle's engine and box into my restoration project. Couldn't have done it on my own. I had to let the engine hoist down gently in small increments whilst my mate guided the transmission into the tunnel without it all swinging and banging into anything. Almost went without a scratch. In fact we made two miniscule little paint scratches (where nobody will ever look at the back of the engine bay!) but it went in okay. Nerve-wracking, having all that weight suspended so high to get it over the bonnet slam panel, then coaxing it down and into place without snagging/bending anything! Had to put the front of the car on axles stands as well as the rear end, because the front wheels of the engine crane were too wide to shove between the front wheels of the car.
To what NM should I tighten the three bolts holding the gearbox crossmember in the tunnel?
Had to look after SWMBO this afternoon, but now I'm looking forward to getting on with assembling all the rest of it, I can tell you! Feels like I've overcome the biggest hurdle. I hope so!
mrtask
Well-Known Member
Re: The optimist
Yesterday it felt good. Today, the very first thing I noticed is that the engine isn't sitting straight! It is slightly diagonal when I look at the car from the front. It is angled a bit to the left (driver's side) looking from in front of the car. I sort of noticed yesterday when I was tightening the gearbox crossmember that it doesn't seem to be sitting quite right. Hmmm. How do I correct that then!? Am I going to have to loosen the engine mounts and gearbox crossmember and try and shove it all sideways a bit? I can't quite get my head around how the thing seems to be skewiff. How does that happen!? Anybody got any suggestions to remedy this? That isn't normal, right?
Yesterday it felt good. Today, the very first thing I noticed is that the engine isn't sitting straight! It is slightly diagonal when I look at the car from the front. It is angled a bit to the left (driver's side) looking from in front of the car. I sort of noticed yesterday when I was tightening the gearbox crossmember that it doesn't seem to be sitting quite right. Hmmm. How do I correct that then!? Am I going to have to loosen the engine mounts and gearbox crossmember and try and shove it all sideways a bit? I can't quite get my head around how the thing seems to be skewiff. How does that happen!? Anybody got any suggestions to remedy this? That isn't normal, right?
mrtask
Well-Known Member
Re: The optimist
Errr, dunno!? I had two square plates with a circular hole in the middle, I guessed that they fitted underneath the mounting brackets on the crossmember, in the little gap, with the rolled edge facing rearwards, towards the passenger compartment. Does that sound right? :?
Errr, dunno!? I had two square plates with a circular hole in the middle, I guessed that they fitted underneath the mounting brackets on the crossmember, in the little gap, with the rolled edge facing rearwards, towards the passenger compartment. Does that sound right? :?
mrtask
Well-Known Member
Re: The optimist
Thanks for that very helpful info Harvey. Tomorrow I'll see if I can't get them put in properly, and hopefully in doing so sort out the ungainly squiffy stance of the motor! What would I do without this Forum? I feel silly, as I have the parts book, the workshop manual and the Haynes book. ARTFM! Ooops!
Thanks for that very helpful info Harvey. Tomorrow I'll see if I can't get them put in properly, and hopefully in doing so sort out the ungainly squiffy stance of the motor! What would I do without this Forum? I feel silly, as I have the parts book, the workshop manual and the Haynes book. ARTFM! Ooops!
mrtask
Well-Known Member
Re: The optimist
Managed to get those square locating plates put in properly, with the rolled lips facing outwards, after having loosened everything up and given the engine and gearbox a 'wiggle' to settle the engine mount bolts at the bottom of the 'V'-shaped slots. Seems to have straightened things up fore and aft.
Whilst I was under the front of the car messing with the engine mounts I looked at the engine earth strap, dangling from the engine block, and couldn't remember where down in the engine bay the other end attaches? Can anybody remind me where it earths to? Is it to the passenger side engine mount?
Moved to the tunnel to connect the speedo cable and the inhibitor switch wires, realised I'd poked them through up into the passenger compartment before priming and undersealing the base unit. Doh! Would've been a whole lot easier had I remembered to unmask the holes in the top of the tunnel, feed the cable and wiring back through and put the rubber grommets back before installing the engine and box. I had to undo the centre console and wiggle it forward to make enough room to be able to poke the speedo cable and the inhibitor wiring back into the tunnel, and faff about with the rubber grommets from inside the car. In doing so I clumsily damaged the delicate paper in the front speaker, which further enhanced my good mood...not. The grommet for the speedo cable disintegrated, it was so dilapidated, as was the one on my parts donor car, but I don't reckon a lot of rainwater will ever get up there above the box at the top of the tunnel.
A couple of the spade conections on the gearbox inhibitor switch are a bit wobbly - presumably I can swap the inhibitor switch with the autobox in-situ if it turns out to be a duff item?
After having repeatedly soaked the screws holding the door hinges with penetrating oil a few times over the last couple of weeks, I attempted to remove them today, with a new Posidrive size 4 crosshead bit in the wrench. Managed to remove 14 out of 16, but rounded out two of the blighters. Lots of patience and a couple of drill bits later I managed to drill them out, starting small and working up the bit sizes, until a reverse threaded extractor tool 'bit' enough to turn the rest out. Tedious, but it worked, so having then removed the roof panel (would've been easier if I hadn't been on my own!) I can now prep the door shuts, pillars and roof surround for paint.
Managed to get those square locating plates put in properly, with the rolled lips facing outwards, after having loosened everything up and given the engine and gearbox a 'wiggle' to settle the engine mount bolts at the bottom of the 'V'-shaped slots. Seems to have straightened things up fore and aft.
Whilst I was under the front of the car messing with the engine mounts I looked at the engine earth strap, dangling from the engine block, and couldn't remember where down in the engine bay the other end attaches? Can anybody remind me where it earths to? Is it to the passenger side engine mount?
Moved to the tunnel to connect the speedo cable and the inhibitor switch wires, realised I'd poked them through up into the passenger compartment before priming and undersealing the base unit. Doh! Would've been a whole lot easier had I remembered to unmask the holes in the top of the tunnel, feed the cable and wiring back through and put the rubber grommets back before installing the engine and box. I had to undo the centre console and wiggle it forward to make enough room to be able to poke the speedo cable and the inhibitor wiring back into the tunnel, and faff about with the rubber grommets from inside the car. In doing so I clumsily damaged the delicate paper in the front speaker, which further enhanced my good mood...not. The grommet for the speedo cable disintegrated, it was so dilapidated, as was the one on my parts donor car, but I don't reckon a lot of rainwater will ever get up there above the box at the top of the tunnel.
A couple of the spade conections on the gearbox inhibitor switch are a bit wobbly - presumably I can swap the inhibitor switch with the autobox in-situ if it turns out to be a duff item?
After having repeatedly soaked the screws holding the door hinges with penetrating oil a few times over the last couple of weeks, I attempted to remove them today, with a new Posidrive size 4 crosshead bit in the wrench. Managed to remove 14 out of 16, but rounded out two of the blighters. Lots of patience and a couple of drill bits later I managed to drill them out, starting small and working up the bit sizes, until a reverse threaded extractor tool 'bit' enough to turn the rest out. Tedious, but it worked, so having then removed the roof panel (would've been easier if I hadn't been on my own!) I can now prep the door shuts, pillars and roof surround for paint.
mrtask
Well-Known Member
Re: The optimist
Found the time to get a bit of work done on my car today. I put the power steering pump back in. I also refitted the engine driven fan and installed the re-cored radiator assembly, plus the engine tie bar bracket, Lumenition module and windscreen washer bottle bracket, and the coil. I refinished the fan pulley wheel with 'Silver Bling' spraypaint, looks really smart, shame it isn't visible anymore with the rad back in :roll: . At this rate I might finish before my retirement!
Using stainless nuts and bolts isn't cheap either!
Can anybody tell me how much space I have to fit a blowing electric fan in front of the radiator and behind the plastic grille? I am looking at a Kenlowe item: "Technical data: Single fan, diameter 330 mms, installation depth: 66 mms, air flow rate: 2257 m3/h." Will that fit, and do the job of keeping my motor from losing it's cool in mid-summer traffic jams? :?:
I'm confident the cooling system is 100% up to scratch, as good as when it left the factory (no blockages, new hoses throughout, flushed heater matrix, temp sender in the intake manifold opens at 82º).
I've just asked this elsewhere but I'll repeat my question here too; why wouldn't I want to supplement my engine driven fan with a blowing electric fan? I reckon my V8 makes enough power that the loss of a couple of horsepower for a pulley driven fan along with the power steering surely won't make any odds?
Found the time to get a bit of work done on my car today. I put the power steering pump back in. I also refitted the engine driven fan and installed the re-cored radiator assembly, plus the engine tie bar bracket, Lumenition module and windscreen washer bottle bracket, and the coil. I refinished the fan pulley wheel with 'Silver Bling' spraypaint, looks really smart, shame it isn't visible anymore with the rad back in :roll: . At this rate I might finish before my retirement!
Using stainless nuts and bolts isn't cheap either! Can anybody tell me how much space I have to fit a blowing electric fan in front of the radiator and behind the plastic grille? I am looking at a Kenlowe item: "Technical data: Single fan, diameter 330 mms, installation depth: 66 mms, air flow rate: 2257 m3/h." Will that fit, and do the job of keeping my motor from losing it's cool in mid-summer traffic jams? :?:
I'm confident the cooling system is 100% up to scratch, as good as when it left the factory (no blockages, new hoses throughout, flushed heater matrix, temp sender in the intake manifold opens at 82º).
I've just asked this elsewhere but I'll repeat my question here too; why wouldn't I want to supplement my engine driven fan with a blowing electric fan? I reckon my V8 makes enough power that the loss of a couple of horsepower for a pulley driven fan along with the power steering surely won't make any odds?
Re: The optimist
why wouldn't I want to supplement my engine driven fan with a blowing electric fan? I reckon my V8 makes enough power that the loss of a couple of horsepower for a pulley driven fan along with the power steering surely won't make any odds?
If you have a new radiator, thermostat, etc. you might find that adding a Kenlowe (type) fan is a redundancy Certainly no harm done fitting one, but how hot does it get in summer? Has your vehicle got Airconditioning? If Air has been retrofitted that could be a good reason to fit an auxilliary fan. I've seen the Rover V-8 used in boats and hotrods where the radiators were considerably less generously sized than the P6B radiator; yet these worked fine....
Congrats on progress!
8)
GW
why wouldn't I want to supplement my engine driven fan with a blowing electric fan? I reckon my V8 makes enough power that the loss of a couple of horsepower for a pulley driven fan along with the power steering surely won't make any odds?
If you have a new radiator, thermostat, etc. you might find that adding a Kenlowe (type) fan is a redundancy Certainly no harm done fitting one, but how hot does it get in summer? Has your vehicle got Airconditioning? If Air has been retrofitted that could be a good reason to fit an auxilliary fan. I've seen the Rover V-8 used in boats and hotrods where the radiators were considerably less generously sized than the P6B radiator; yet these worked fine....
Congrats on progress!
8)
GW
ghce
Well-Known Member
Re: The optimist
just because your V8 makes 140 odd HP doesnt mean the saving of 3 or 4 HP is not significant. The savings are because your V8 when at cruising speed probably only consumes about 30 to 40 HP, wack on an extra 5 HP for the fan at a cruising speed of say 50 to 60 MPH then you will find that the 5 HP is a significant part of the cosumed HP at this speed and will therefore seriously affect your MPG and engine efficiency.
Graeme
just because your V8 makes 140 odd HP doesnt mean the saving of 3 or 4 HP is not significant. The savings are because your V8 when at cruising speed probably only consumes about 30 to 40 HP, wack on an extra 5 HP for the fan at a cruising speed of say 50 to 60 MPH then you will find that the 5 HP is a significant part of the cosumed HP at this speed and will therefore seriously affect your MPG and engine efficiency.
Graeme
Re: The optimist
Important to get a handle on why you would want to fit an electric fan, gents!
If you are addressing a cooling problem, then this is only a very partial solution. The real answer is to sort out the cooling problem! ie removing all accumulated crud from cooling passages and increasing the capacity of the radiator - in the case of the V8 simply converting to three row. if this is all you are attempting to do then a small supplementary fan anywhere you can fit it in, either in front of or behind the rad, operated by a simple dash switch for when you are in trouble, is entirely adequate.
But the engine driven fan consumes a good deal more than 5 bhp! Reckon on nearer 20 or 25 at high engine rpm, 7 - 10 whilst cruising. But the only time you need a fan is whilst travelling at very low speed or when stationary in traffic. At cruising speed the motion of the car through the air is entirely adeqaute to keep the coolant cool. Thus electric fans to completely replace the engine driven fan are targetted at the stationary in traffic situation and use a similar amount of power to the engine driven fan operating at low engine rpm - say 3 or 4 bhp. But they shut off completely the vast majority of the time. Because the amount of time they are in use is fairly limited there is no effect on the performance of the battery charging. It's no worse than running the heated rear window and the screen demister.
For the complete replacement option you therefore have two major wins. First off you have a lot more of the engines' horsepower available to you to accelerate and power the car. So, despite not having increased horsepower, the car will feel much livelier, especially at high engine rpm. Second, you now are using 3 or 4 bhp very occasionally, instead of 7 to 10 bhp all the time and a lot more when driving fast. So you will make a noticeable saving on fuel consumption for the same driving style.
Australian readers can, to some extent, ignore all this, because their cars are fitted with a different type of fan with a coupling similar to a torque convertor between it and the engine. The technical logic is the same, just that the means of achieving it is mechanical rather than electrical. For us Brits this solution is rarely an option. The couplings are reasonably readily available ex SD1, but the fan to bolt on the front to match the space to the P6 radiator isn't. Ho hum!
Chris
Important to get a handle on why you would want to fit an electric fan, gents!
If you are addressing a cooling problem, then this is only a very partial solution. The real answer is to sort out the cooling problem! ie removing all accumulated crud from cooling passages and increasing the capacity of the radiator - in the case of the V8 simply converting to three row. if this is all you are attempting to do then a small supplementary fan anywhere you can fit it in, either in front of or behind the rad, operated by a simple dash switch for when you are in trouble, is entirely adequate.
But the engine driven fan consumes a good deal more than 5 bhp! Reckon on nearer 20 or 25 at high engine rpm, 7 - 10 whilst cruising. But the only time you need a fan is whilst travelling at very low speed or when stationary in traffic. At cruising speed the motion of the car through the air is entirely adeqaute to keep the coolant cool. Thus electric fans to completely replace the engine driven fan are targetted at the stationary in traffic situation and use a similar amount of power to the engine driven fan operating at low engine rpm - say 3 or 4 bhp. But they shut off completely the vast majority of the time. Because the amount of time they are in use is fairly limited there is no effect on the performance of the battery charging. It's no worse than running the heated rear window and the screen demister.
For the complete replacement option you therefore have two major wins. First off you have a lot more of the engines' horsepower available to you to accelerate and power the car. So, despite not having increased horsepower, the car will feel much livelier, especially at high engine rpm. Second, you now are using 3 or 4 bhp very occasionally, instead of 7 to 10 bhp all the time and a lot more when driving fast. So you will make a noticeable saving on fuel consumption for the same driving style.
Australian readers can, to some extent, ignore all this, because their cars are fitted with a different type of fan with a coupling similar to a torque convertor between it and the engine. The technical logic is the same, just that the means of achieving it is mechanical rather than electrical. For us Brits this solution is rarely an option. The couplings are reasonably readily available ex SD1, but the fan to bolt on the front to match the space to the P6 radiator isn't. Ho hum!
Chris
Brian-Northampton
Administrator
Re: The optimist
Just a quick caveat to this Chris. Whilst I agree entirely with you, and have experienced this first hand, there is one occassion where this is not the case. The ram effect of the air hitting the radiator at speed relies on an uninterrupted flow of air through the grill. Therefore if you've got a badge bar full of badges (like mine below for example) on your front bumper, then as I have found, your temperature will rise, even at speed.
Before you ask, yes, I will be replacing one of those badges with that superb new badge from the P6Club very soon.....
Bri.
chrisyork said:
Just a quick caveat to this Chris. Whilst I agree entirely with you, and have experienced this first hand, there is one occassion where this is not the case. The ram effect of the air hitting the radiator at speed relies on an uninterrupted flow of air through the grill. Therefore if you've got a badge bar full of badges (like mine below for example) on your front bumper, then as I have found, your temperature will rise, even at speed.
Before you ask, yes, I will be replacing one of those badges with that superb new badge from the P6Club very soon.....
Bri.
Phil Robson
Well-Known Member
Re: The optimist
Presumably the HP is lost by the belt driving the fan / water pump.
Can the power loss be significantly reduced if just the fan is removed? :?
Presumably the HP is lost by the belt driving the fan / water pump.
Can the power loss be significantly reduced if just the fan is removed? :?
Phil Robson
Well-Known Member
Re: The optimist
How & why? :? :?
How & why? :? :?