The inheiritance. 1976 P6b

Re: The inheiritance. 1978 P6B

SydneyRoverP6B said:
Great lot of snaps ewok.....excellent... :D

The driver's and passenger's front seat are not height adjustable, the minimum height being what it is now.

.

Ron.
Click to expand...

Seat height is adjustable to the extent that seperate spacers are available (and should be either fitted to your car or will have been supplied with when new) which go under the front or rear seat rail mounts, this effectivly changes the rake of the seat (should be mentioned somewhere in the owners manual) it is quite effective, I had to do it to mine as I am 6'4". As I recall I needed a die nut to fix the thread from the seat bolt.....this is very common and most people that have done it need the die nut to do the job.

Graeme
 
Re: The inheiritance. 1978 P6B

ghce wrote,...
Seat height is adjustable to the extent that seperate spacers are available (and should be either fitted to your car or will have been supplied with when new) which go under the front or rear seat rail mounts, this effectivly changes the rake of the seat (should be mentioned somewhere in the owners manual) it is quite effective
Click to expand...

Hello Graeme,

I took a look in the workshop manual prior to writing my post and there is no mention made on changing the seat height, so I just figured that they were not adjustable. What you have said though is logical so I don't know why no mention is made of it.

Ron.
 
Re: The inheiritance. 1978 P6B

I should drag out my owners manual, fairly sure they mention it in there.
 
Re: The inheiritance. 1978 P6B

Owners manual for 3500/ 3500Sedition April 1974 (English version part number 90 607875) page 8
Front seat adjustment
part 3. An alteration can be made to the rake or height of the seat itself by altering the distance peices on which the seat runners are mounted. This operation is described in Section 7 of this manual.

the appropriate section appears on page 113 in section 7

Seat rake and height adjustment- Fig 79

The seat rake and height can be adjusted to suit drivers of different statures, by using the two sets of distance pieces supplied in the tool roll, together with the distance pieces already in use.

These can be fitted between the seat runners and the floor as follows:

1. Remove the four fixings, securing the seat complete to the seat runner.
2. Lift off seat complete.
3. Remove the four Phillips screws securing the seat runners to the floor.
4. Using a combination of the existing distance peices and those supplied in the tool roll, adjust seat as required.

to the right in the book is a nifty line drawing of the seat, rail, removed nut and washer and a spacer (distance peice) in place under the fore aft rail

hope this helps if you have no clue from the discrption given in the book i could scan the page for the picture? but probably is not necassary.

Cheers Graeme
 
Re: The inheiritance. 1978 P6B

Mine doesn't have the little filter thingies on the breathers, just runs directly into the carbs as follows:

IMG_0824.jpg


IMG_0825.jpg


I also had the same mirror as you on the drivers side:

IMG_0827.jpg


Now replaced with these on both driver and passanger side:

IMG_0826.jpg


They look much better i think, but still don't really work very well...
 
Re: The inheiritance. 1978 P6B

Hello tvr_v8,

That's interesting,...your engine has the HIF44 carburettors, and the spill return runs off the n/s as opposed to the o/s carburettor. I don't recall seeing that before... :?

The purpose of the flame trap in theory at least is to prevent fire from reaching the fuel system, should such occur within the engine. They also prevent most of the oil vapour from reaching the carburettors and being burnt not to mention any hard gritty material which might cause cylinder wear, being a trap for such.

Ron.
 
Re: The inheiritance. 1978 P6B

First off engine breathing. You have a very late car with the final emissions set up. Hence the ugly canisters beside the carbs. Provided that you don't need to demonstrate the factory emissions performance in any sort of government test, I'd have thought it was reasonably safe to omit these. Not so the flame traps! The Rover V8 is a heavy breathing engine. That's why frequent oil changes and top quality oil are essential for long life. If you routed the crankcase gasses to atmosphere from the rocker covers I'd expect problems that no filter set up is going to solve. If the gasses are going to the carbs then the flame traps are essential. There are two much more positive mods to be made to the induction system - have a look at my thread "Lucky breathes easy" for how I put K&N look alike filters inside the main air intake box and also how I opened out the intake trumpet. Whatever and all changes you make to the crankcase venting and air intake system (and the exhaust!) will require the carbs to be re needled (only one jet on an SU - it's the needle that determines mixture strength). That will need to be done by someone who knows what they are doing with SU's on a rolling road.

As far as the seats go, your photo looks as if they are already in the lowest position, How tall are you? As Graeme says - to check and adjust you first take the seat base off the top of the runners. Very simple with four bolts lodged just inside the base pressing. You can then see if there is any clearance between the runners and the floor of the car that would allow them to go any lower. If so it's just a question of making up some shorter hollow pillars to go between the floor and the runners at front and back.

Chris
 
Re: The inheiritance. 1978 P6B

SydneyRoverP6B said:
That's interesting,...your engine has the HIF44 carburettors, and the spill return runs off the n/s as opposed to the o/s carburettor. I don't recall seeing that before... :?
Click to expand...

Thanks Ron, that's good to know - avoids any confusion as to why things aren't like they should be in the workshop manual in future! :) The engine in my car isn't original and I don't really know much about its precise internals at this stage, would it having HIF44s be considered a good/bad/ugly/indifferent thing? Would it give any further clue as to what the engine is likely from/what sort of spec it will likely be? Going from its 355 code engine number I think it's early 80s Range Rover 3.5 .

Would it be worth me going in the opposite direction from what ewok is thinking and fitting traps in the lines if they have been removed at some stage in the past?

Cheers,

Al
 
Re: The inheiritance. 1978 P6B

This forum is great! so much technical knowledge!

1. I'm a smidge under 6.3 so I feel like my eyeline is right under the "shaded" part at the top of the windscreen. If anyone has driven a EA-EB era falcon, you'll know what I mean when I say that I feel like I'm almost driving from on top of the car, rather than in the car. I sit on the seat rather than in it. I'll investigate the seat seatup a bit more soon.

2. Al - what sort of mirrors are those and did they use the factory holes already there?

I'll answer everything else in a bit,
Cheers
Geoff
 
Re: The inheiritance. 1978 P6B

ewokracing said:
2. Al - what sort of mirrors are those and did they use the factory holes already there?
Click to expand...

I think they're late UK spec, i bought them from a chap on here.

Alas not, the holes are totally different - but thanks for not pointing out my dreadful 10 min bodge with filler, do the least sanding possible and quickly paint over the top cover up job visible in the pic of where one of the old holes was.. :)
 
Re: The inheiritance. 1978 P6B

Your replacements are not factory spec. They are actually the type usually fitted to MGB's and Midget's. The UK factory type are less bulbous and have a longer base.
 
Re: The inheiritance. 1978 P6B

tvr_v8 wrote,...
Would it be worth me going in the opposite direction from what ewok is thinking and fitting traps in the lines if they have been removed at some stage in the past?
Click to expand...

Hello Al,

Yes indeed, that is an excellent idea. There needs to be two flame traps, one in each of the line running from the rocker cover to the carburettor. An interesting point is with the OEM flame trap hoses as fitted to the factory P6 3.5 engines, the internal diameter tapers within the hoses, becoming smaller once the flame trap is passed and the carburettor approaches. This aids in suction, making the drawing of fumes from the engine into the carburettors effective and much more efficient.

The HIF44 carburettors are the metric version of the HIF6, with 44mm butterflies as opposed to one and three quarter inch.

Hello Geoff,

I have just noticed that your engine has HIF44 carburettors too, and your spill return is also on the n/s as opposed to the o/s.

Ron.
 
Re: The inheiritance. 1978 P6B

Ron!

spill return? care to do a bit of photoshopping and draw a line in pointing it out?

Is the HIF44 just the metric version of the 1 3/4 SU (its what is on mini's?)

I'll post more in a second
 
Re: The inheiritance. 1978 P6B

Hello Geoff,

On your n/s carburettor you will see a black plastic tube that exits the front of the carburettor, then curls back and goes beneath the carburettor before disappearing out of sight down the back of the engine. The purpose is to return excess fuel to the tank. As both the mechanical and electric pumps for the twin SU as fitted to the RV8 operate on a constant flow as opposed to stop-start as is common with many cars, once the float bowls are full, excess fuel to requirements is then directed away back to the tank. Fuel is constantly circulating, leaving and returning to the tank. This process also helps to cool the fuel to a certain degree which can be beneficial when it comes staving off fuel vapourisation.

Yes,...the HIF44 is the metric version. The butterflies are a smidge smaller in diameter, so they are not interchangeable with the HIF6 issues,..so it is my understanding.

Ron.
 
Re: The inheiritance. 1978 P6B

SydneyRoverP6B said:
Great lot of snaps ewok.....excellent... :D

Ok....the second number..HP 2069 276...is a New Zealand build number. Your Rover was the 2069th car to be assembled at the Nelson plant and was completed in February 1976..(276)

Cool! thanks for clearing that up

A reading of around 20psi at idle is within the acceptable range. Was the engine hot at the time,...coolant temp say 80 to 85 degrees C?

no, it was just under the green part of the temperature gauge.

The driver's mirror is actually from 1976, and was typical of the Rovers which left NZ that year with 4533XXXXE body numbers. As you found out, they are also next to useless when it comes to using them for what they were intended. This problem was typical of the black plastic ones only.

The driver's and passenger's front seat are not height adjustable, the minimum height being what it is now.

The jack sits pretty much as you have it. I wrap mine in a rag so as to reduce the possibility of scratching the body.

I think I will have to do this as well. Are there any other items that are meant to be part of a "tool kit"?

The Champion L92YC spark plugs are the correct ones for the engine. Does your engine run with an 8.5 : 1 compression ratio?

I'm not sure. I looked on Rudiger's site and my engine number is 45122xxxD, the D meaning 9.5:1 I think

How many km are showing on the speedo although by and large oil change frequency is the deciding factor with the RV8. Does look a bit gritty, but mine did too back in the 1980s. The engine had always had GTX and then GTX2. I told a well informed Roverman about it and he said..."crook oil" I said...i have always used GTX to which he replied..."that is what I said". I changed to Pennzoil street machine and the engine continued for another 20 years. Rovers are tough that is for sure.!!

The odometer hasn't worked since I have started driving, so I have to get that fixed asap. The trip meter works though. You hit the nail on the head, unfortunately Pa had been using Castrol as well! I use Penrite as I've had good results with it in my Rotaries, I used one of their mineral based oils and a small filter. I'll change it again after I get the brakes and wheelbearings and some other small things done. I know someone that works pretty high up for Ford and he also said that Castrol is rubbish!

I would be inclined to leave the flame trap arrangement as is, just make sure that the traps, hoses and the brass pipes that accept them are clear. Blockages here will see the engine pump oil out from everywhere...
When you pull the hoses off the carburettors the engine runs like a hairy goat and as you summise you will need to make fueling adjustments along with breathing changes if you do replace them, and at the end of the day the engine won't work any better. You can fit filters, be they K & N or paper items directly into the elbows and do away with the canister, but I feel concern that the filters will degrade more quickly as they will be subject to direct engine heat as opposed to being protected inside the canister.

Ron.
Click to expand...

I may just end up putting K&N filters inside the canister as other members have suggested. It's sooooo quiet though and I assume keeping the canister will not change that, it's almost disappointing!


ChrisYork said:
First off engine breathing. You have a very late car with the final emissions set up. Hence the ugly canisters beside the carbs. Provided that you don't need to demonstrate the factory emissions performance in any sort of government test, I'd have thought it was reasonably safe to omit these. Not so the flame traps! The Rover V8 is a heavy breathing engine. That's why frequent oil changes and top quality oil are essential for long life. If you routed the crankcase gasses to atmosphere from the rocker covers I'd expect problems that no filter set up is going to solve. If the gasses are going to the carbs then the flame traps are essential. There are two much more positive mods to be made to the induction system - have a look at my thread "Lucky breathes easy" for how I put K&N look alike filters inside the main air intake box and also how I opened out the intake trumpet. Whatever and all changes you make to the crankcase venting and air intake system (and the exhaust!) will require the carbs to be re needled (only one jet on an SU - it's the needle that determines mixture strength). That will need to be done by someone who knows what they are doing with SU's on a rolling road.

Chris
Click to expand...

Long story short, no, we don't have emissions testing in Victoria. Any ideas on how to remove the canisters and plug up the orifices that would be left? Will removing the canisters affect fuel vaporisation in the fuel tank at all? I once took out a breather tank that was above the fuel tank in one of my Mazdas and I would get a huge amount of blowback whenever I opened the fuel cap. My fuel economy also went from poor to rediculous (12A extended port rotary), I put the breather tank back in and it was a lot better after that.
I'm only thinking of removing the canisters to
a) give me a bit more room in the engine bay
b) because the canister pads are listed as a serviceable item and I'm betting that they have never been changed
c) let the engine breathe a bit better, though usually removing the canisters makes no difference. (or at least I have seen this on modern efi V8 cars)
I might do a bit more researching.

Ron, I've just seen you post about the spill return - Gotcha! Now I understand. Thanks!
 
Re: The inheiritance. 1978 P6B

ewokracing wrote,...
I'm not sure. I looked on Rudiger's site and my engine number is 45122xxxD, the D meaning 9.5:1 I think
Click to expand...

Hello Geoff,

The compression ratio is stamped on the block adjacent to the engine number. The compression ratios as they appeared in the P6B were 10.5 : 1, 9.25 : 1 and 8.5 : 1.

Ron.
 
Re: The inheiritance. 1978 P6B

I have got the air filter "muffler" canister off, sadly no surprises. It's a dogs breakfast. The paper airfilters look like they were changed back when jesus played full forward for the Nazereth All Stars, the intake elbows are chock full of dirt and grime, even the flame traps that I cleaned a week ago look clogged up again.

I'll post some pictures up on Monday, but I was thinking that I might just order the SD1 set of hoses from Rimmer Brothers rather than stuff around trying to clean old and brittle hoses. I've missed my chance to get some new Ryco fuel filters too (had to go to Bursons today for some Mazda bits and clean forgot).

The "return" line from the carburettors for the fuel looks like it runs on the passenger side - loops back behind the carb, over the rocker cover and down under the air filters, I found a little holder bracket with a rubber grommet stuck way way down behind the back of the engine. Where does this bracket go to secure the hose? (Pictures will make it clear).

I also found a carburetor reference stamped on the inlet manifold. I've managed to get one end out of the air filter muffler but not the other. I've pulled the air filter off the stubborn end though and I'll use it as a reference to get some decent filters (as per Chris's idea)

I also found what looks like to be a big of a dodgy job on the transmission shaft linkage thingymajigamy.

I've knocked up yet another list!
immediate
- hoses + flame traps
- new K&N filters to sit inside the filter canister barrell/muffler
- fuel filter and engine breather filter (same same as a fuel filter)
- spark plugs and magnecore leads as the leads look kinked and heat damaged
- fix dodgyness
- get alternator replaced/fixed/replaced by one of Robert Bosch's finest
- brakes and wheelbearings replaced
- fix speedo

coming
- Coolant hoses. By god they are everywhere on this thing! They all look fragile and there is some funky green stuff bubbling out of the ends of a few of them. I'm inwardly groaning because the one that goes from the inlet manifold to the heater matrix - to my untrained eye but learnered in the ways of old cars surprising you with nasties - looks like the join at the inlet manifold is rusted through and a bees knob away from breaking off.
- thermostat, housing and gasket
- check differential for leaks
- start on steering/suspension/replacing powersteering fluid
- chase up lead on rostyles
 
Re: The inheiritance. 1978 P6B

I need a bolt that holds the bracket onto the air filter barrel is anyone has one!

I also need the rocker cover screws/bolts (and the two hoses that go to the heater matrix), mine are all rounded off. :evil: Where can I get these from?
 
Re: The inheiritance. 1978 P6B

Sounds like you need to discover some specialist suppliers!

Once you've exhausted the limits of your local motor factors, you might be surprised how much your local Land Rover dealer will carry for the engine. Next in line has to be Scotts: http://www.scottsoldautorubber.com.au/. Then you're off to the Motherland (insert expleteive within word if required). I'd start by e mailing what you need to Rover-Classics. Ian is really helpfull and has much more than is on his website. http://www.rover-classics.co.uk/ Then Win's http://www.winsintltd.co.uk/index.htm and then JRW https://www.jrwadhams.co.uk/Index.asp. If none of them can help then you're making your own! And don't forget to keep your eye on the UK version of Ebay. A very rich vein of P6 bits - start in the Classic Car Parts, Rover section.

That should get you away from home base. (no cricket metaphors today!).

Incidentally. You ought to invest in a copy of the real Mckoy workshop manual and especially the Spares Manual. Both are available new. The spares manual is also in pdf on Ian's Rover-Classics site and shows how everything fits together :D .

Chris
 
Re: The inheiritance. 1978 P6B

Screws/bolts will all usually be available from a bolt shop, the one I've been getting any of that sort of stuff i need from has been "Cost Less Bolts" in Moorabbin, but there are loads around.
 
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