The View From The Windscreen

[chrisyork]

The de dion rear end gives superb traction in the smow and the almost perfect 50/50 weight balance between front and rear minimises any acrobatics! So yes, almost peerless amongst 2WD saloons! And of course, those are the same reasons why it handles so well in the dry too. Only downfall is the lurch understeer in roundabuuts on the V8 - and we know how to fix that, don't we chaps!

Chris

 

[JVY]

I liked your video Demetris. It looks like you were making fine progress in snow. Encourage by Chris's post, maybe if we do get some this week, I will give it a go. Will need to try and remember to take the camera.

 

[Demetris]

Chris is exaggerating a little! Don't forget that it's stil a front engined rear wheel drive car, it can't be nowhere near as good in snow as my 1300 for example, so i don't expect it to shine when the snow starts to get deep or on steep inclines.
Steve, as i said it was pretty comfortable in there. I used almost all the time second gear and i had to drive for about 45 minutes with snow like that you have seen and a little more in places, passing through some uphill and downhill hairpins. For obvious reasons i filmed just the easy part! I was careful and i never experienced any wheelspin or slide. The tyres were my usual Michelins energy savers, but i had a pair of socks in the boot just in case. With M+S tyres you will be fine if the snow isn't too deep and the inclines moderate.

 

[Tofufi]

A view from my other car, a couple of hours ago

It's far better in the snow (with winter tyres) than my P6 with summer tyres, but perhaps that's not surprising. It has weight distribution and better tyres in its favour.

P6 is nicely balanced, which is evident when you drive it in the snow, but there isn't always enough weight over the driven wheels in terms of traction ability.

 

[DaveHerns]

Maybe it's because 1300's and the like are on narrow section tyres which bite into the snow whereas modern cars with 215 or so section tyres don't ?

 

[SydneyRoverP6B]

I clicked on the link to have a look at your video Demetris, but it says that the video is not there..

Willy and Jim, I do like the view of all that snow from the windscreen. I have never driven through snow, although if I went down to the Snowy Mountains in southern NSW of the high country in Victoria during Winter, I would certainly have an opportunity to.

Ron.

 

[Demetris]

Sorted Ron, you can see the video now.

Dave, it's a mix of various things that help. The 1300 has indeed narrow (155 section) tyres, it is lightweight in comparison with moderns (830 Kg) and has most of this weight over the front driving wheels. It is easy to see why it can pull itself out of the worse when the moderns struggle.

 

[JVY]

+1 on the narrow tyres. Any car I have ever driven on snow with standard wide section tyres has given poor traction. As said, I think the narrower tyres exert more pressure and bite into the snow better.

Like the pic Tofufi. Looks like there was still plenty more snow in that sky?

 

[Willy Eckerslyke]

Dave, it's a mix of various things that help. The 1300 has indeed narrow (155 section) tyres, it is lightweight in comparison with moderns (830 Kg) and has most of this weight over the front driving wheels. It is easy to see why it can pull itself out of the worse when the moderns struggle.

Hmm, while that sounds logical, one of the best cars I ever owned for driving in the snow was a Vauxhall Viva HB (RWD). I replaced it with a Fiat 128 which you could almost be describing above, but which was useless in snow. The Triumph Vitesse always surprised me too by being much better than it should have been with that massively heavy engine up front and relatively light weight over the driving wheels.
A couple of years ago when we had very thick snow here, I trundled around in my Land Rover and kept meeting a nutter in a Fiat 126 which was coping extremely well.
So I agree that narrow tyres are the answer, but FWD has little to do with it, IMO.

 

[Demetris]

Don't forget that also the type of tyres can make a whole lot of a difference. So unless you had all those cars on the same type of tyres, the comparison is not really valid. Besides the 128 is not really the typical FWD car. It has a funny front suspension geometry that appears even more funny under the slightest intention for accleration. I am sure you will remember that!

 

[Tofufi]

+1 on the narrow tyres. Any car I have ever driven on snow with standard wide section tyres has given poor traction. As said, I think the narrower tyres exert more pressure and bite into the snow better.

Like the pic Tofufi. Looks like there was still plenty more snow in that sky?

Not had any real snow since those pictures (or indeed for 24hrs before them)

I take back what I said about my van being good on slippery surfaces. It really struggled on the sheet ice this morning while trying to go up a steep hill - took 3 attempts at various points to roll back a few feet and find a better path up the hill. The brakes would hold it fine on the hill, but the open diff meant just one rear wheel losing traction was a big problem. During that time, I was passed by a couple of modern 4x4s and a Fiat Panda, but they've got 35+ years advantage on my van...

A locking differential would make it a different beast altogether, I think.

 

[DaveHerns]

Tyres back in the 70's had a tread pattern which is more like modern snow tyres - lots of blocks on the tread ,Goodyear G800 etc .Modern tyres have mainly circumferential grooves - fine for clearing rain but useless on snow
Another thought - if a tyre is low rolling resistance do that also mean less grip?

 

[Willy Eckerslyke]

Don't forget that also the type of tyres can make a whole lot of a difference. So unless you had all those cars on the same type of tyres, the comparison is not really valid. Besides the 128 is not really the typical FWD car. It has a funny front suspension geometry that appears even more funny under the slightest intention for accleration. I am sure you will remember that!

I agree the tyres could have been partly responsible - too long ago for me to remember what they were. Was the front suspension of the 128 that odd? I remember that the rear was, with its transverse leaf spring. But in the dry it handled better than anything else I'd driven and was a lot quicker cross country than its house-brick styling would ever have suggested.

 

[SydneyRoverP6B]

Demetris wrote,...

Sorted Ron, you can see the video now.

Thanks Demetris The road seemed very empty, more so that usual? Your Rover was making good progress by the look of it. That was the first time that I can recall seeing the Rover strip speedo in operation. I always imagined that there was a needle hiding somewhere that would come into view and register the speed, in the same style as Australian cars with strip speedos, instead a red band performs the task.

Ron.

 

[JVY]

Strip speedos are cool. I sometimes think it would have been nice if the 2200TC had a strip speedo and matching strip tacho - that would have been interesting. Wonder if any production cars had a strip tacho?

Sorry, I'm seriously deviating now.

 

[Demetris]

Was the front suspension of the 128 that odd? I remember that the rear was, with its transverse leaf spring. But in the dry it handled better than anything else I'd driven and was a lot quicker cross country than its house-brick styling would ever have suggested.

We are getting waaaay off topic here, but i have to explain...
Dave, 128s had McPherson struts up front, but the geometry of these in 128s, were for some reason adjusted so that the cars suffered badly from nose lift on straight line acceleration, that resulted in both wild positive camber angles and too much toe in. This phenomenon was exaggerated when there was some wear in the front suspension. 128s were plentiful around here during the 70's and 80's and everyone knew about their problems getting enough traction off the line. I admit that when i was young and wild i have raced against a few on the lights with my long suffering 1300 (then tuned 1100).
Otherwise i agree that their handling was extraordinary.

 

[Demetris]

Demetris wrote,...

Sorted Ron, you can see the video now.

Thanks Demetris The road seemed very empty, more so that usual? Your Rover was making good progress by the look of it. That was the first time that I can recall seeing the Rover strip speedo in operation. I always imagined that there was a needle hiding somewhere that would come into view and register the speed, in the same style as Australian cars with strip speedos, instead a red band performs the task.

Ron.

Ron, this was on a minor road over the mountains early in the morning. I usually use it on Monday mornings when i return from a weekend away straight to my workplace. Local traffic is never dense there anyway, more so with the snow mid winter.
Yep, that's how the strip speedo works, as some friends of mine that are MDs say, it's like an old fashioned medical thermometer.
Anyway, i will repeat a few photos with the speedo working to return on topic.

 

[Demetris]

Strip speedos are cool. I sometimes think it would have been nice if the 2200TC had a strip speedo and matching strip tacho - that would have been interesting. Wonder if any production cars had a strip tacho?

I don't think that there was ever such a think like a strip tacho, even though i also wanted one, since i was a kid in my dad's Austin. It would look fab. 8)

 

[chrisyork]

Nearest thing I've ever seen to a strip tacho was on the first Audi Quattro's with the electronic dashboard, both speedo and tacho climbed leaving an arc of LED (LCD?) behind them - very cool indeed!

Chris

 

[SydneyRoverP6B]

Appreciate the additional photos Demetris I fear that I may now be heading briefly off topic, but I couldn't help but notice the windscreen washer jet in the second of your last three photos. It has twin outlets, was this normal for the 2000? Are there two jets or just one, hence the twin outlet?

Ron.