BW65 oil level

Hi Harvey . I should really start a new thread for this one , but this way you know the history of this box . Anyhoo , a week or so ago i thought i felt a slight slipping / judder as it changed down from 3rd to 2nd . Normal driving is fine just when i gave it a bit of stick to prompt the down change ( not kick down though ) any way i decided to ignore it as you do . Today the same thing happened . Not every time but ocasionally when you promt it into changing down . In all other respects the thing works lovely . Is this something i can adjust ? I don't want to mess with it too much until after next weekend as i'm using it for my mates wedding , don't want to let her down ! The fluid is clean and the right level .
 
Roadtest it to see if it's only got the problem on the downshift, or whether it exhibits the same symptoms if you pull away and drive in "2".
Slip on the 3-2 downshift would be front band, so you could check the adjustment on that. If it's not the adjustment it could be a servo seal. It could be the band failing. Do I remember you removing a servo to cure an oil leak?
 
Cheers Harvey ,.i'll road test it to see exactly what it's doing . Used it today for about 8 miles , And have to do the shopping run in it tomorrow ( 4 miles or so ) Then i have to use it next sat for my mates wedding , really don't want to get involved with it until after then .
Yes i removed the servo to replace the O ring where the selector shaft goes into the box .
Performed faultless today :?

Edit , when i changed that O ring i used all new seals from a BW 65 seal and gasket kit i had bought and lubricated the seals with clean ATF as i assembled it .
 
stina said:
Yes i removed the servo to replace the O ring where the selector shaft goes into the box .
Performed faultless today :?
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I remember it now. That is the front band servo. If you were to lose SECOND gear altogether because of a servo or band failure, you could still use the car, because IIRC when they do they just miss out SECOND and drop directly into TOP when you lift off because of the slip. It's a fairly uncommon failure though, so it's a long while since I've driven one like it.

If it was OK today maybe it wasn't what you thought it was.
 
Thanks Harvey , I'll see what it does tomorrow by pulling off in 2nd . As i say i never really thrash it any way , Just want it to be o.k for my mates wedding . Don't want to let her down . After that i'll sort whatever it is and put it right . ( or rather you can talk me through it ! :D )
 
Like I say, even if it were to fail completely, if you run up in FIRST past the point of the lowest light throttle 2-3 shift speed, then lifing off the throttle should make it drop directly into TOP, so it won't make the car undriveable.
 
I'll post this here as the recent history of the gearbox is here .
I've had suspicions that 2nd gear has been slipping for a while , as in recent posts in this thread .
Today i used the car , 20 miles or so , on the way home from my patents ( about 8 miles ) it started to slip noticeably in 2nd before changing into top . It seemed to get worse closer to home until about 3 miles from home it struggled to pull it's self along at all . I pulled into a side road and checked the fluid which seemed o.k . Not wanting to be stranded for hours i decided to reverse her the couple of miles home ( few funny looks , otherwise o.k :shock: , kept the electric fan on as no air flow :wink: )
Any hoo she's sat in the garage now cooling off while i type this and have a coffee . I'll go out and check the fluid again in a bit . I did try and pull forward when it was safely in the garage , seemed to judder and try to move forward , but couldn't . Totally fine in reverse .
One for you Harvey i think , How bad is it :cry:
 
stina said:
I've had suspicions that 2nd gear has been slipping for a while , it started to slip noticeably in 2nd before changing into top .How bad is it :cry:
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Check the colour of the fluid, if it's turned brown all of a sudden it could be the band itself, and if that's the case it's box out I'm afraid.
Check the front band adjustment. And if that was the servo that you replaced the seals on, consider the possibility that you may have nipped a seal when reassembling.

Reversing home was a bit OTT, as even if the band fails altogether you won't be left without any drive at all.
 
harveyp6 said:
Reversing home was a bit OTT, as even if the band fails altogether you won't be left without any drive at all.
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As it would not move forward AT ALL . i considered reversing it home the only thing to do , other than wait a couple of hours for a moron in an AA truck to patronise me and tell me "it wont move forward love" !
I still hold a full class one hgv and am comfortable going backwards :? :D

Anyhoo , not concerned with all that , only how to move forward and sort this out .
So it looks like the box has to come out .

What sort of a job is that for a DIY'er ?

Who to send it to , as previous in this thread i'm not totally trusting of the " experts " down here !

Guess their is no point testing this and that , must be a problem with the old thing for it to let go all of a sudden ?

Supposing after dropping it out their is not much the DIYer can do ??? Who do you recommend Harvey , or do you recon them if i pallet it to you ?

Edit , reading back through your post Harvey , prob done 1500 mls since replacing that seal in the servo , would a problem with reassembly not of shown before now ?

And yes the fluid has gone brown over a few months , much as i have tried to ignore it !
 
stina said:
harveyp6 said:
Reversing home was a bit OTT, as even if the band fails altogether you won't be left without any drive at all.
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As it would not move forward AT ALL . i considered reversing it home the only thing to do ,
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If it wouldn't move forwards at all then it's not a front band problem. Front band is SECOND gear only, so, if you had no forward drive at all, but you were able to reverse it all the way home, then it's a front clutch problem. The only exception to that I can think of would be a one-way-clutch failure, and if that were the case you would still have drive in "1" & "2", but not in "D".

BW65 boxes have "Anti-Bump" on the front clutch to soften the engagement, and that overcomplicates them a bit and makes them more prone to failures.

BW65's have to be removed as a complete unit with the bellhousing and converter, so probably best to lower it out on a jack.

If I were you I'd confirm the diagnosis first, then decide how you move forward (no pun intended) from there.

The brown tinge to the fluid would tend to confirm it's pretty serious.
 
O.k Harvey . Thanks for coming back .
I've tried to explain as best i can what is going on .
The 2nd gear problem is well described and documented in above posts . The problem seemed to come to a head today to a point where it lost all forward drive compleatley .
After reversing it home and into the garage , leaving it to cool for an hour or so , checking the fluid , it was no different , would " Just about engage drive and try to pull forward . Engaged all gears 1 2 @ D with the hand brake on and it would not pull against it while revving the motor !
The fluid level is always there or there abouts so other than checking the obvious in the morning just in case , i guess i just as well start dropping it out .
Thoughts on where to send it what to do with it ?
No i don't want to convert to 5 speed or any of those ideas . I can find the parts easy , and do the work , but not interested in messing with the originality so keep those ideas for your own projects guys :wink:

Bit gutted but was expecting it . On the up i'll do the rear oil seal on the motor now then :roll:
 
stina said:
The fluid level is always there or there abouts so other than checking the obvious in the morning just in case , i guess i just as well start dropping it out .
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If it goes backwards but not forwads, then I think that's what you're going to have to do.

stina said:
Thoughts on where to send it what to do with it ?
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There are various options open to you, anything from just repairing the fault, to a complete overhaul. If you send me a PM I'll give you more details.
 
Hi Harvey , can you tell me how heavy it is ? ( so we know how many shreaded wheat to have Saturday morning :D )
 
stina said:
Hi Harvey , can you tell me how heavy it is ?
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Very.

stina said:
how many shreaded wheat to have Saturday morning :D )
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I'd say about 12. (Each)

Don't try lifting it out on your own. Two people could do it, but better if there are two people there to get one to operate a jack while the other steadies the box so it doesn't fall off, and then lower it out.
 
Update .
Got the box out Saturday , Dad came over and gave me a hand for a few hours .
Cleaned the casing up yesterday , then had to leave it , other commitments .
Started to strip it down this afternoon . Harvey is going to talk me through repairing the clutch and whatever needs doing while it's apart .
Yes i'd love to go for a nice recon box and just stuff it back in , but needs must sometimes .

gearbox001.jpg

gearbox002.jpg

gearbox004.jpg

gearbox008.jpg
 
Good luck Stina, but with you on the wrench, and Harvey on the words, I think success is on the way.


John.
 
Good work for an afternoon :)
Hope all goes to plan.
It's likely my workshop will look a very similar sight soon...
Jim
 
Gosh! A braver lass than me, gungha din!

I'm sure Harvey will tell you to replace absolutely everything with any relationship to rubber... particularely sevo seals.

Where are you buying parts from?

Chris
 
Stina, hopefully half the battle is done now that it's out and just think of the fun and satisfacton you woukd miss out on if you just swapped it for another one :) . Don't know if your gearbox is the car's original but if it is then I always think it's nice to keep the original parts where possible. Looking at your second pic, I thought, it's just a box - can't be that complicated? Then I looked at the next pic and saw what was inside it!!! Not to worry though, as already said with the guidance of the great auto-box guru and your experience (and your Dad's), I'm sure it will sorted in no time.

Noticed your torque wrench in the last pic. Is it a Hilka with the little plastic arrow that points to the torque as the bar bends? I've had one very similar for years. I can remember being with my Dad as a wee boy when he bought it - probably because he had just got a new/old car that had one of those new fangled alloy cylinder heads :LOL: .
 
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