BW65 oil level

As Harvey said are you sure your warm idle is correct? 650 RPM measured on a seperate accurate meter (thought i must say my cars gauge is very accurate) often in a worn carb/throttle linkge arrangment th ereturn to idle can be a little inconsistant with sticking or worn parts.

Graeme
 
One other thing I would add is that if you reduce the pressures to the point where you lose the kickdown, but still have the harsh engagement of REVERSE when hot, then increase the pressures back to the point where the kickdown functions again, and then check the rear band adjustment, as if that is too loose it could cause the problem. Ideally you would have done this already, but as they tend not to give problems, and common things are common for a reason, the kickdown cable is normally the cause. Chances are you can iron out the problem with the cable setting, but it certainly won't hurt to set both of the bands if you feel that you want to go that far.
 
Hi Harvey
I'm trying to work through the issues in stages i can understand , and explain as i go what is happening . It takes me time as the car is not on the road day in day out , but as and when i can put time and money into it . I've not got as far as learning about setting /adjusting bands ect . I have lowered the pressure one turn of the cable this afternoon and am going for a run tomorrow morning . I will take note of what is going on and try to explain tomorrow .
Thanks for sticking with me on this one .
these bands ! are they something the average fool ( me ) can adjust , tweak , mess with if i need to ?
Cheers stina
 
Do your roadtest and once we know the result then we can think about band adjustments should the need arise.
 
Hi Harvey
I've got the hang of this internet thing now and i know your out there !
As i said , i would post here when i thought i had more info .
I see they're is a similar post / thread else where on the forum . So as not to confuse matters i'll stick with this one .
I heve been using the car and dropping the pressure a turn at a time . I still have a responsive kick down , and smooth changes up / down the box . The harsh engagement of reverse has improved but not totally gone . As the drip tray has slowly filled i have been checking the level . It is close to where i think it should be . Not worried about the slight leak , if you use the car it's not an issue .
Questions now . Has the high fluid level equaled high pressure ?
Istill have kick down , and have been adjusting down half turn at a time , how much further to go before pressure to low ?
What would be the sympytoms ?
What are the correct change speeds , are they in my haynes / owners manual ?
I like the way it runs now , would like to know it's all o.k .
Thanks in advance
stina
 
Hi fluid level won't cause high pressures as far as I can see, they are controlled purely by the cable adjustment. The shift speeds are in the factory WM, I'm not sure whether they are in the Haynes. Personally I set them up on a roadtest, to the point where you still have kickdown, you don't feel the need to lift off the throttle to get the upshift on kickdown or full throttle, the pressures are not so low that it is changing up to early, but upshifts at the correct low speeds on a very light throttle opening. Look in the book and it gives speed ranges to aim for, and remember that tired engines need to be set to the lower ends to take that into account.
 
Thanks Harvey.
I think i.m close to the mark by what you say . Will have a look for the change speeds , the last few trips out i have lowered the pressure half a turn at a time .
cheers stina
 
I've recently had someone with the same sort of problem on a 35 box, it all worked OK, apart from a thump on the 2-1 downshift, and that was doing it with the crimp resting on the outer cable, so because of that there was no further adjustment, but once the crimp was removed, a further half turn upwards on the outer cable cured the problem completely, so small adjustments can make all the difference once you're getting close.
 
Hi Harvey
That ties in with what i'm finding . I wondered if i was imaganing it getting better with such small adjustments .
stina
 
i think im gonna have to start looking deeper into my box adjaustments on the v8 then---
its a right cow to kickdown,have to use two feet on the throttle and push a hole in the floor almost--this prob has nowt to do with the downshift clunk,,but im finding all this bewildering
think sombody needs to explain the procedure again for a "durrbo" like me,where the cable adjustment points are etc-
and ill totally start from scratch ,,
my cars previous keeper was deffo a "tinkerer" its prob miles out
 
Actually, the two problems are intrinsically linked. The kickdown cable is perhaps better described as the gearbox pressure regulator. At idle, with no throttle applied, it is at its loosest which gives lowest possible gearbox pressure, then, as the throttle is increased, the cable is progreesively tightened until it reaches maximum gearbox pressure at full throttle. Kickdown is determined by gearbox pressure, plus a couple of other factors, such as engine - aka gearbox input shaft - speed. If your car is reluctant to kick down, then the implication is that the kickdown cable adjustment is too loose - or that you are not achieving full throttle at the carbs. Hence why the procedure for checking the kickdown cable adjustment starts by verifying the throttle linkage set - up. It is quite common for the throttle linkage to be in a poor state on the V8 because of the tendency to wear a couple of rubber bushes in the linkage away. This thread has all the info to sort it out.

Of course, by increasing the tension on the kickdown cable, you will raise the box pressure all across the operating range, not just for kickdown. On the face of it, this will make your jerky down change problem worse. So the next thing to check is what your idle speed is. The gearbox fluid pump is driven by the gearbox input shaft, so the higher the engine rpm, the higher the box pressure for a given kickdown cable setting. Make sure you have the lowest attainable idle speed, certainly no more than 650 rpm, lower if you can achieve it without risk of stalling. That will give the smoothest possible take up of drive and reduce to a minimum the "clunk" on moving the gear lever from neutral to drive. Your problem of harsh downshifts should also be improved, because the engine at no throttle should be running slower, and hence with lower box pressures, when the road speed dictates a change down.

The long and the short of this is that if you have a gearbox problem, you first have to sort out all the carburettor settings and throttle linkage. Only then can you move on to faulting the transmission. Quite unlike a modern car!

Chris
 
I agree with all of the above, except...

chrisyork said:
The gearbox fluid pump is driven by the gearbox input shaft, so the higher the engine rpm, the higher the box pressure for a given kickdown cable setting.

Chris
Click to expand...

The pump is actually driven by the two tangs on the torque converter, not by the gearbox input shaft, but you have obviously been diligently trawling through all of the gearbox postings, as what you have said about the idle speed, and the pressures increasing with engine speed is correct, providing, of course, that the cable has been connected in the first place.
 
chrisyork said:
Kickdown is determined by gearbox pressure, plus a couple of other factors, such as engine - aka gearbox input shaft - speed.
Click to expand...

Just noticed this as well. Not quite, kickdown is determined by throttle opening and roadspeed (not engine speed) in other words the kickdown cable has to raise the line pressure inside the box to the point at which line pressure overcomes governor pressure (set by roadspeed) and when it does that's what triggers the downshift, hence why if the roadspeed is too high, it won't kickdown no matter how hard you stamp on the accellerator.

Still, good to see you read what's here, and all round, a good effort. :wink:
 
This is a really good thread. I feel from reading it, I now can understand a bit better how everything works, and is related with each other. My own problems, I feel could be related to this as my tickover speed was way too high when warm, around 1000rpm, and my throttle linkage bush was pretty well non existant. Both of these have been sorted now.
 
Hi guys . It's been a while since i posted on this thread but thought it was a good place to ask as all the info is here . The box has been and still is performing well , changes up and down smooth at the right speeds , and the kick down works , ( that's probably sealed it's fate eh !? ) Over the 10 ish months , 2000 miles i've had it it's leaked about half a liter of transmission fluid , or that's how much i've put in it any how . My question is . Are their any seals on the outside of the box that can be replaced without removing the thing from the car ? It looks from the drip tray to be from the left hand side of the box looking from the front of the car towards the back . ( Drivers side to avoid confusion ) I've not had a really good look under there , was going to while i had it up doing the brakes but by the time i was finished i'd had enough for one weekend .
I'd rather avoid removing the sump as the oil is clean , and the thing works well , i have read on here they can play up after an oil change . Plus i don't think it's coming from the sump .
I don't think it's an excessive amount over the time , but if their's a reasonably easy fix i'd have a go . ( or leave it alone ? )
Your thoughts welcome ( Come on Harvey :D )
 
The sump gasket, tailshaft seal, selector shaft seal, tailshaft gasket, and servo cover gaskets can all be replaced with the gearbox in the car, and from your description of where the leak is coming from I'd narrow that down to the front servo, or far more likely, the sump gasket. Try nipping up the bolts. Even if you change the sump gasket, and so have to drain the oil, there's no reason why you can't put the oil back in if it looks and smells OK.
 
O.k thanks Harvey , i'll have a look under in the next week or so and narrow it down a little then now i know . Does it seem an excessive amount to you ? I know totally dry would be better !
 
65's are pretty oiltight generally, and especially when compared to the 35, but that's mostly due to the sump gaskets leaking on the 35's. Best bet is get under there and clean it all so then you can test it to see where it's coming from. There's no reason you shouldn't be able to improve on that oil consumption figure, although 2000miles per pint could be a lot worse.
 
I hear you Harvey , i'll get under it and have a good old look , try to get a picture of offending areas . I do seem to remember it looked to be wet , leaking higher up the box when i had it over the pit back in the spring , but i've done allot of other jobs on her in the mean time , and not got around to having a proper look .
Cheers
 
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