Wild Rover - NADA 3500S

[So Cal V8]

Paul,

That's great advice. I am focusing on getting the engine out and trying to methodical so that reinstalling will be easier, the fire damage makes it a little harder. I have done little bits and pieces on the sills so that I know what I am looking at - I know back in the UK you all have to deal with how rotten these cars have become over time - it's a bit of a morale booster to find solid metal even though it's not relevant at the moment.

I have started stripping off the calipers - the front right came off easily enough once I actually read the manual I will get the others off over the next week or so.

I don't know about the front suspension yet as I may be getting the base unit sand blasted and it makes more sense to do bushings, etc. after that process. You are absolutely right about finding the jobs that build morale and keep me coming back.

I have several benchmarks out there - when I feel a bit beaten I take a look at the progress you and others have made. I would love to do a really classy job like keynsham but he has really set the standard high.

A few more pics...


These have definitely seen better days - I have my fingers crossed that the internals are as good as the rockers and pushrods.

 

[TokyoP6B]

Does anyone have any tips on how to get the underseal off? Am I just faced with a really time consuming and tedious job or is there a short cut? I am guessing no short cut, but any tips gratefully received.

http://calblast.com/

There are certainly better solutions than sandblasting; search "media blasting" for other opinions on USA car restoration sites Sandblasting tends to work-harden + stress panels + that can cause cracks over time; it can be a nightmare to panel-beat or paint thereafter+ generates too much heat in the process. Media blasting creates no heat, does a better job + leaves no residue, an advantage over chemical stripping + aluminum ( hood, hoodscoops and bootlid on a P6B, as well as a lot of your engine parts ) won't take kindly to sandblasting Media blasting won't harm suspension components or damage ( healthy ) rubber bushings or seals, exposed threads, or chrome/anodising either Saw the "Calblast" system in action at the SEMA show in Vegas a few years back +had a similar process done here to a bike restoration ( '59 Yamaha that had sat for 43 years outside in the elements, in a backyard in Imperial Beach! ) If you think your Rover looks bad; you should see how THAT looked before I started on it

GW

 

[So Cal V8]

Graham,

I am definitely a fan of soda blasting over sand blasting - I actually have a home soda blaster, but my compressor just isn't up to the challenge. I think they still use the term sand blast as a generic but I would have to confirm with the local company I found.

I emailed the company that you provided the link for - they are about 80 miles from here, which wouldn't be a big deal if the price was right. The price wasn't right! They quoted me $2,000 for a full rotisserie blasting - my local place quoted $500 - $900 depending on if it was just the base unit, or if it included all the panels. For two grand I could buy an auto rotisserie, upgrade my compressor, buy enough media and still have enough money left over to get royally pissed at my local.

Been a bit slack the last day or two - work keeps getting in the way...

I got the front right caliper off and gave it a bit of a scrub. I read here that either Richard (Quatro) or Pilkie used compressed air to blow the pistons out - I had no such luck, they are well and truly in there. Any thoughts on how to dislodge them?

On a plus note, I took the rocker cover off the other bank and it looks as good as the first.

Also, on a plus note, the chap who owned keynsham's NADA has a few bits and bobs lying around in his workshop that he will let me have. He has a Rover V8 with a 5 speed SD1 gearbox, but that, he won't let me have...

 

[keynsham1]

Just to make you feel better, when I took my rocker covers off, I found this.........



As you can see at the left of the picture where the pushrods can be seen, none of this mess had got down into the engine. I did replace the camshaft, followers, pushrods, and rocker shaft assemblies as a matter of course, but even the original rockers had minimal wear in them and there was no incorrect play in the valve guides! There are no valve seals on this engine, and it doesn't blow any smoke at all, so all must have been well dispite the original shock.

 

[So Cal V8]

Richard,

Thank you - morale is sufficiently boosted. I will be going a few rounds with the Wild Rover this weekend - I will share my findings.

Alan.

 

[rockdemon]

Just to confirm - the engine i bought from chris w for PAE looked like yours in the pics - and is a very sweet runner!

 

[So Cal V8]

I pulled more carpet and trim out this evening, there are some pretty rusty patches on the floor by the gas pedal and behind the rear seats. It seems to be surface rust but it's been there a while - I don't think it was caused by the fireman dousing everything. Anyway, I am glad that the plan is to (eventually) media blast the whole car, taking it back to bare metal - I will start from scratch and should be able to catch all the problems before they worsen.

I found more evidence of the crispy wiring caused by heat from the fire. When I removed the air con/electric window control panel there is quite a bit of damage. The plastic air vents behind the panel have all melted and the wiring is well and truly barbequed.



And so the tear down continues at my relatively leisurely pace. Tomorrow I will probably venture back under the hood to complete the strip down to allow me to pull the engine...

The vacuum tubes to the back of the hot/cold swith on the air con have got me a little worried :shock:
I am hoping that Ian, Richard (keynsham) or anyone can give me a little reassurance on this - please tell me it's not as confusing as it looks - please...

 

[josephp6man]

hi alan,
there are five electric wires on the blower switch and two vacuum pipes K & L there should be a yellow rubber band on your loom on each of the vacuum pipes, if not put a bit of tape around each pipe before you pull it off. on the back of both the blower switch and the cold/hot switch they are lettered at the side of each one to what goes where ( vacuum pipes ) the five electric wires write down what colours go to each spade terminal, go steady when pulling them off, try and hold close to the spade terminal with one hand and the other for pulling it off, the material that goes around the spades gets brittle. if you do lose what goes where, they can be checked out with vacuum, to what opens what flap. any problems and me, roly and richard will be able to help.


ian

 

[So Cal V8]

Ian,

As ever, thanks for the willingness to help - I suspect that many moons from now when I start to reassemble everything I will be calling on you for advice again - I have to say the backside of the blower controls has given me a bit of a fright, especially as I know that the other end of these vacuum lines have all been fried, so trying to figure out where they all go will be so much fun - not...

It was a pretty hot day here today, the first we have had in a while - coupled with the fact I had to go out to my wife's aunt's birthday dinner it meant a slow Rover day.

I got all of the door trim pads off - the interior is looking quite bare now. I had a crack at the rust in the driver's floor, and it does seem to be surface rust, but there is quite a bit of it.



I was in the mood for some instant results today so I tried cleaning up the some of the seats. Following Ian's advice I used Simple Green, a scrubbing pad, a nail brush and followed up with Meguiars interior cleaner. It pretty much all came up very nicely - the Ambla is in pretty good shape considering, there is some fading on high traffic areas and places that spent time in direct sunlight, but overall not too bad



I don't know if I will get any time on Wild Rover tomorrow, that may be it for the weekend - still there's no rush, and anyway once I finish stripping everything down I only have to start find the cash to put it all back together again.

 

[arthuy]

Looks like you are making good progress there, shame about the fire.

My theory is that the carb on that side has a sticky valve or the float is punctured, this would have sent the petrol out the overflow. When the car was cranked and it probably took a few cranks to fire up the main Battery cable to the starter probably dropped a few sparks on the ground and found the petrol. I have seen the outer strands of these cables turn to powder inside the terminal. Suppose you are lucky that it happen before you picked it up.

Good luck and looking forward to seeing more photos.

Colin

 

[So Cal V8]

It's been a while - I haven't had as much time to spend on the Wild Rover as I would have liked, but work and life keep getting in the way.

I have stripped the dash and instruments out, so the interior is almost bare, just the rear parcel shelf and rear seat belts to go.

The front bumper and lower valance are now off and the headlights removed. I have dropped off the front calipers to get them unseized and evaluated for rebuilding.

I will concentrate on clearing out the last bits and bobs in the engine bay in preparation for removing the engine and transmission, which will be my next goal/milestone. I think I have found a 5-speed gearbox, so although it's a bit premature, the question now becomes to do the conversion or settle for the auto-box - opinions welcome...

I must give a huge Thank You to keynsham - everyone has no doubt seen his wonderful restoration, either here on the forum, or in person. Richard generously provided me with a DVD with over 2000 pictures showing his complete restoration - I am really going to need it and can't thank him enough.

I have a few questions and a few problems that I have encountered that I will post in the relevant sections.

I will keep updating as and when there is any progress.

Thanks for the help and advice everyone - please keep it coming.

Alan.

 

[TokyoP6B]

I think I have found a 5-speed gearbox, so although it's a bit premature, the question now becomes to do the conversion or settle for the auto-box - opinions welcome...

D + D make adaptor bellhousings for 5-speeds to your V-8 ( http://www.aluminumv8.com ) You'll still need to adapt a pedal box, fabricate a crossmember to hold the transmission + have your driveshaft welded + balanced too, then there are considerations like speedo cable + speedo calibration...

It's a fair bit of work but you might as well get it done while the car is apart + everything is accessible

Good luck with the Wild Rover!

GW

 

[josephp6man]

hi,
propshaft does not have to be cut and welded it is the right length for the five speed box if you are using the LT77. making the bracket for the gearbox is simple enough, i have done it two ways, adapting the original one that is on your car and the one from the 5 speed. the pedal box is going to be your hardest thing to track down if you are going to use the proper one i.e. 3500S LHD manual pedal box. the easier one is to use one from the 2000 of which they are pretty more plentiful in LHD form, the difference being the clutch master, rather than sitting back and vertically the 4 cyl comes out and is at the side of the brake master, i have also done this conversion as believe it or not it is also even hard to find a RHD 3500S set up. i then made an extended heatshield for around the clutch master as it is fairly close to the exhaust manifold. that was 8 or so years ago and the guy i did it for has had no problems at all. you can also use either the slave cyl from the LT77 or the 3500S. you will also have to alter your downpipe.

ian

 

[TokyoP6B]

propshaft does not have to be cut and welded it is the right length for the five speed box if you are using the LT77

I'd qualify this by saying you will likely also need a Rover SD1 Bellhousing; by using one this will also solve the clutch throw-out fork + release bearing situation... Plenty in the UK, a rare part your side tho'**edit: TR8 Triumph might also do the trick, in which case http://www.thewedgeshop.com are the guys USA-side who will have 'em

GW

 

[So Cal V8]

Not too much progress recently - admittedly it's hard to get much done when you are sulking in the corner because the rear brakes won't come off easily, but still that's neither here nor there really... and, I think I will have the rear calipers out this weekend.

The front calipers were pretty messed up - I dropped them with John, my tame mechanic, and he has managed to get the pistons out - after an inspection it appears that I won't need to sleeve them, but they will need all new pistons as part of the rebuild. As soon as I get the rears stripped and we know what's needed I will be asking Ian to put a care package together for California, that is as long as he survived the tornados in Massachusetts...

I have been offered the use of an engine crane and stand, so once I've got the brakes over to John I will focus on pulling the engine and trans.

Hopefully I will have the time and energy to play with the Rover this weekend.

 

[DaveHerns]

We've had the debate before as to whether you should split calipers - don't think you should as the seals between the two halves and the stretch bolts aren't widely available

 

[So Cal V8]

Dave,

I was aware of the debate and discussed this with my mechanic before going this route. The pistons were well and truly seized in the calipers and there was a strong possibility that they were going to need sleeving, so splitting them was just the best and only real option to getting them properly overhauled. It turns out that they won't need to be resleeved as the bore is in good shape - as soon as Ian gets back from Boston I will be ordering all of the parts I need.

I don't think that I would have split the calipers if I were doing the work myself, especially in light of the discussions here on the subject, but John is a professional and I am confident in his ability to do a first class job on the rebuild.

 

[Tor]

Hi So Cal,

I actually reused pistons looking almost as hectic as those - in the previous car I had, when I was really on a budget and wanted it running above all else. With new seals (as throughout the system) they worked fine, no leaks :roll:

Hope you free up the rear calipers nicely. I can recommend dropping the diff onto a jack. It makes plain sailing of what's normally a lot of contorting...

 

[So Cal V8]

This past weekend I managed to get the final drive out, which of course included the stubborn rear calipers.

Originally I had no intention of going quite this far, but I was having problems with the calipers and needed a solution. The best suggestion here was to drop the diff and go from there. I did that, but the calipers were still a little recalcitrant. Whenever I run into a problem I can't solve immediately I have resolved to walk away and come back later. During one of these (many) moments I was reading Tor's thread and noticed some rather lovely pictures of his cleaned and painted final drive, calipers, de dion, etc. As it was all hanging off the Wild Rover and Tor had done such a good job of refurbishing his I decided to go that route. What Tor didn't mention was what a pain in the rear end the whole thing is (no pun intended - well, maybe a little one).

I am not an expert, more of a well meaning beginner - I have just the right amount of information and tools to make me more than dangerous, it's the know how I am lacking. I won't bore you, or embarrass myself with the details, but suffice it to say that I followed my new rule and walked away, more than once. I don't have anyone local to call on when in need of advice - there is one guy, but he isn't that easy to get hold of. Some of the problems I "solved" are probably second nature to some of you guys, but they came with a steep learning curve for me.

The only time I didn't just walk away was right at the end. I hadn't been able to do any disassembly of the calipers so the hand brake cable was still attached - pretty much everything was frozen solid and I could make any headway removing the cable. It was the end of the day on Sunday and I was oh so close to getting everything out - screw walking away, I got out the bolt cutters and dealt with the cable in short order. I really hope they are still available :?

I will take the whole final drive up to John, my docile mechanic, he can deal with the rear calipers and while he has everything we can get the final drive all cleaned up and looking pretty like Tor's - BTW what did you use to clean and paint yours Tor?

On another note, I have read sowen's thread about replacing his diff with a Jag one. I am really thinking of going to a 5 speed and maybe a few improvements under the bonnet to squeeze a few more horses out on the 3.5. So to any of you out there that know - how many horsies is too many for the original rear end, and which Jag diff to use if needed?

All help and advice always appreciated.

Alan.

 

[The Rovering Member]

Handbrake cables are still available. :wink: