Rover NADA 3500S Auto
- Thread starter keynsham1
- Start date
The OEM lifters used in all factory Rover V8 engines from 1967 till 2004 were made by the Diesel Equipment Company, Grand Rapids, Michigan, U.S.A, and were the only part used in the engines that was not made in the U.K.
The lifters that came out of my original engine after 203,000 odd miles didn't display corrosion on the side like that one... :shock:
Where were they made, and how were they packaged?
Ron.
The lifters that came out of my original engine after 203,000 odd miles didn't display corrosion on the side like that one... :shock:
Where were they made, and how were they packaged?
Ron.
keynsham1
Active Member
I have just bought a set of tappets from RPI and they seem to be of better quality just by looking at them. I was assured that they are the original OEM parts as fitted to new Rover built engines. Time will see!
I have taken one of my old tappets apart to see what they are like inside. It is now back together but as it is empty of oil, you can quite easily press the centre piston in to the tappet against it's spring. With my new tappets, you cannot do this. they seem possibly to be prefilled with something, maybe to reduce rattling on initial startup. Has anyone else ever experienced tappets like these?
I have taken one of my old tappets apart to see what they are like inside. It is now back together but as it is empty of oil, you can quite easily press the centre piston in to the tappet against it's spring. With my new tappets, you cannot do this. they seem possibly to be prefilled with something, maybe to reduce rattling on initial startup. Has anyone else ever experienced tappets like these?
unstable load
Well-Known Member
It could be some type of preservative to stop rusting. Whip one open and have a look-see.
It may just save you having to suffer a failure because someone thought it was clever
to grease them inside or something equally silly.
You need to fill them before fitting anyway, so it will be a safety precaution to clean them
in my opinion.
I know Harvey says with spec parts there is no need to check for clearences,
and I agree 100%, but as it's all open, you may as well satisfy your curiosity, I would...
It may just save you having to suffer a failure because someone thought it was clever
to grease them inside or something equally silly.
You need to fill them before fitting anyway, so it will be a safety precaution to clean them
in my opinion.
I know Harvey says with spec parts there is no need to check for clearences,
and I agree 100%, but as it's all open, you may as well satisfy your curiosity, I would...
keynsham1
Active Member
I have just started my engine after replacing the hydraulic tappets with new Land Rover OEM parts as I had a loud tappet noise after a couple of thousand miles with cheap after market tappets. The good news is that it started up OK. The bad news is that the tappet noise is still there. So I am assuming that it isn't a tappet.
When I rebuilt the engine originally, I replaced the camshaft, tappets, pushrods, and rocker shafts. The rocker shafts assemblies were brand new from Rimmers, bought from someone who had a project car they never finished. (There is absolutely no wear on the camshaft so I am happy to just replace the tappets considering the low miles I have done. It is hard enough getting to the tappets on a NADA spec car. To replace the camshaft means removing the radiator and half the Air con kit............ I am not going there!).
Assuming that all is now in order, the only other thing I can think it could be is a blowing exhaust. (or possibly rubbish after market rockers and shaft). The noise only appears after the engine has run for a few minutes. Originally my car had no exhaust gaskets but when I rebuilt it, I fitted some. Maybe this was a bad idea?
I have read somewhere that a blowing exhaust can sound exactly like a tappet on the way out. Has anyone got any experience of this, or for that matter, any other ideas?
When I rebuilt the engine originally, I replaced the camshaft, tappets, pushrods, and rocker shafts. The rocker shafts assemblies were brand new from Rimmers, bought from someone who had a project car they never finished. (There is absolutely no wear on the camshaft so I am happy to just replace the tappets considering the low miles I have done. It is hard enough getting to the tappets on a NADA spec car. To replace the camshaft means removing the radiator and half the Air con kit............ I am not going there!).
Assuming that all is now in order, the only other thing I can think it could be is a blowing exhaust. (or possibly rubbish after market rockers and shaft). The noise only appears after the engine has run for a few minutes. Originally my car had no exhaust gaskets but when I rebuilt it, I fitted some. Maybe this was a bad idea?
I have read somewhere that a blowing exhaust can sound exactly like a tappet on the way out. Has anyone got any experience of this, or for that matter, any other ideas?
webmaster
New Member
Exhaust blow can sound very similar to a noisey tappet, although generally it gets quieter as the car warms up and the manifolds expand. A blow will generally be louder if you rev it up a bit (or under load when driving), tappets don't generally change tone when the engine is under load.
keynsham1
Active Member
So assuming it is not the tappets (just replaced), then the culprit has to be the rocker shaft. It looked as new when I inspected it before the latest rebuild, but minute weart can cause loads of noise.
The rocker area seems to run with very little visible oil. When you take the filler cap off and the engine is running, only a trickle can be seen. Is this normal? Bearing in mind I have done 2000 odd miles, I would think that any oil starvation would have shown itself a long time ago. I checked all the oil ways with a piece of soft wire before I rebuilt it, and they all seemed clear. There was no gunky mess but just clean oil in them.
Other options arer small end, big end, main bearings, etc, but I don't think it is making the right noise for any of these.
The rocker area seems to run with very little visible oil. When you take the filler cap off and the engine is running, only a trickle can be seen. Is this normal? Bearing in mind I have done 2000 odd miles, I would think that any oil starvation would have shown itself a long time ago. I checked all the oil ways with a piece of soft wire before I rebuilt it, and they all seemed clear. There was no gunky mess but just clean oil in them.
Other options arer small end, big end, main bearings, etc, but I don't think it is making the right noise for any of these.
In the reasonably easy to do bracket, why not lift off the rocker assemblies and then motor the engine with the plugs out. You should then be able to see the oil emerging from the holes under the front pedestals.
The only other thing I can think of is that you have too much clearance under the heads / too short pushrods. Have you checked the follower preload?
Either that or its coming from a completely different area - eg alternator/A/C pump/pwr strg pump?
Chris
The only other thing I can think of is that you have too much clearance under the heads / too short pushrods. Have you checked the follower preload?
Either that or its coming from a completely different area - eg alternator/A/C pump/pwr strg pump?
Chris
keynsham1
Active Member
The PAS pump is noisy at the moment as I have just refitted it and the box and it is merrily pumping froth around. I need to properly bleed it, but that isn't the noise. I don't think it is the alternator either. It is a metallic tap coming from the rear offside of the engine. The pushrods I put in came from eBay and I must admit I didn't measure them. I made the (rather rash) assumption that they would be fit for purpose.
I looked in to the tappet preload issue. It seems to be a measurement to ensure that there is enough movement in the tappet to take up all the play. It is virtually impossible to measure though as the tappets have to be installed and empty of oil otherwise there will initially be no gap. I soaked my tappets in oil before I installed them and so they will not compress until the engine is run and everything finds is place. It shouldn't be necessary with all standard parts anyway, I wouldn't think. It is doesn't seem to be mentioned anywhere but the RPI website!
So it could be an under length pushrod, or a rocker. I am not convinced about the exgaust blowing theory. It just doesn't sound right. It is not difficult to replace the rocker shaft, rockers and pushrods so maybe that will be my next job?
I looked in to the tappet preload issue. It seems to be a measurement to ensure that there is enough movement in the tappet to take up all the play. It is virtually impossible to measure though as the tappets have to be installed and empty of oil otherwise there will initially be no gap. I soaked my tappets in oil before I installed them and so they will not compress until the engine is run and everything finds is place. It shouldn't be necessary with all standard parts anyway, I wouldn't think. It is doesn't seem to be mentioned anywhere but the RPI website!
So it could be an under length pushrod, or a rocker. I am not convinced about the exgaust blowing theory. It just doesn't sound right. It is not difficult to replace the rocker shaft, rockers and pushrods so maybe that will be my next job?
keynsham1
Active Member
Just managed to pass this years MOT without amy problems, but I did have a lucky break. My windscreen wipers work fine, but the parking operation is iffy due to the switch on the wiper motor being knackered. All was OK until I tried them before the MOT and sure enough, delay wipe made it 3/4 of the way across the windscreen and stopped. Normal wipers were fine but stopped at the position you turn them off. Giving the plastic switch housing a small shove got things working again, but only for a couple of operations, then it was back to failure again.
There seems to be some question about whether this is an MOT failure or not. If they park in the line of sight, then this is a failure, but if you can turn them off when in a park position, then this might be OK? Some cars like early Land Rovers have to be operated in this fashion.
As it was a bit late to cancel the MOT I decided I would go for it and hope that they behaved when tested. The tester sat in the car and tested the lights. All fine. He then said "how do the wipers and washer work?" I jumped at this golden opportunity and said "let me show you". I promptly demonstrated wiper and washer action, making sure I turned the wipers off when they were in their parked position. Job done!
If anyone has a spare wiper switch, the plastic one on the side of the motor with five wires on, from a cable drive setup, I am interested!
There seems to be some question about whether this is an MOT failure or not. If they park in the line of sight, then this is a failure, but if you can turn them off when in a park position, then this might be OK? Some cars like early Land Rovers have to be operated in this fashion.
As it was a bit late to cancel the MOT I decided I would go for it and hope that they behaved when tested. The tester sat in the car and tested the lights. All fine. He then said "how do the wipers and washer work?" I jumped at this golden opportunity and said "let me show you". I promptly demonstrated wiper and washer action, making sure I turned the wipers off when they were in their parked position. Job done!
If anyone has a spare wiper switch, the plastic one on the side of the motor with five wires on, from a cable drive setup, I am interested!
keynsham1
Active Member
I have my Rover on the Rover P6ROC club stand tomorrow at the NEC. I am very excited about this and so I have been washing and cleaning it all day. Just before I put it back into the garage at around 4:30, I decided I should check the lights. Indicators OK, Brakes OK, Headlight dipped OK, Headlight main beam ....nothing. I went for the obvious item on a NADA which is the floor mounted hi/lo switch. Disappointingly, it was working fine. So I decided to check the fuses. I know that there can be an issue with the old round fuses but up until now mine has been fine.
I have some photos of the melted fusebox, but I cannot seem to put them on this page at the moment. One of the low beam fuses had melted and the contacts on it, and the adjacent high beam fuse had moved , now not holding the fuse in correctly. When I put low beam on, within 30 seconds, the metal of the fuse was too hot to touch.
I have now soldered in four in-line blade fuse connectors for the headlight operation and all seems to be fine. Tomorrow will tell! This. by the way, is not as difficult as you might think, but is a bit time consuming.
So I am now a believer. Get rid of the old fuses as soon as you can. Mine were OK for 40 years, but now are shot.
Just for information, I had cleaned all the contacts, replaced the fuses with new ones of the correct size and shape, sourced from a specialist, and squeezed the clips in to clamp the fuse better. It still melted. I am running 55w H4 dipped beam which is substantially more than the 37.5w original sealed beam, and this is the only thing I can put this down to.
Mr York, you can stop laughing now!!!!!!
I have some photos of the melted fusebox, but I cannot seem to put them on this page at the moment. One of the low beam fuses had melted and the contacts on it, and the adjacent high beam fuse had moved , now not holding the fuse in correctly. When I put low beam on, within 30 seconds, the metal of the fuse was too hot to touch.
I have now soldered in four in-line blade fuse connectors for the headlight operation and all seems to be fine. Tomorrow will tell! This. by the way, is not as difficult as you might think, but is a bit time consuming.
So I am now a believer. Get rid of the old fuses as soon as you can. Mine were OK for 40 years, but now are shot.
Just for information, I had cleaned all the contacts, replaced the fuses with new ones of the correct size and shape, sourced from a specialist, and squeezed the clips in to clamp the fuse better. It still melted. I am running 55w H4 dipped beam which is substantially more than the 37.5w original sealed beam, and this is the only thing I can put this down to.
Mr York, you can stop laughing now!!!!!!
ghce
Well-Known Member
keynsham1 said:
I am waiting for some decent LED main and dipped beam bulbs to become available until then I am still running the anemic and positivly yellow looking OEM setup.
Went for a warrent of fitness check last week, I could not beleive how dim the lights were when checked.
Graeme