Occie gets a 5-speed box!

[dmcsweeney]

the fuel gauge packed up on the way back from the National anyway and testing pointed to (probably) another punctured float. :roll:

Oh bugger, I must have given you a dud! Sorry Stan!

Also not too bad as aforesaid flexi pipe is currently braided nylon hose, what I call compressed airline - hardly factory I think! How long's that been on there? Who knows?

Simular stuff nearly cost me my red car when it pee'd petrol onto a hot down pipe! Get it out of there! I had to cut the line further back the car and catch what i could to divert it away from the exhaust.

RPI insist that Castrol SMX is the only oil that gives anything like a decent change in the LT77.

Chris

I'll second that. I'm running it in 2 of my cars.
Regards,
Dave

 

[vaultsman]

Oh bugger, I must have given you a dud! Sorry Stan!

Don't think so Dave. I tested the one you kindly sent me and it wasn't punctured. I think the edge of the half-loop of wire it sits in must be too blame. When I get a replacement float I'll open the radius up a tad.

Not too much time this evening but the clutch is off...

Simular stuff nearly cost me my red car when it pee'd petrol onto a hot down pipe! Get it out of there! I had to cut the line further back the car and catch what i could to divert it away from the exhaust.

You can see the pipe here, and it looks a bit suspicious at the left-hand end anyway.

Packed the spigot bearing with grease and it came out OK with the help of a 3/4" limit plug from work, a soft hammer, and some assistance from the moley's for the last bit.

Offered up the new SD1 bush and it won't look at the bore. Measuring them up the new one (MG Rover OE part) seems a good 2-3 thou bigger on the OD. :roll: Hmmm...

 

[harveyp6]

That braided plastic petrol pipe is cr*p, and should be burned at the earliest possible opportunity. (Preferrably before it decides to do it for itself while still on the car......)

It's quite possible that the original got broken when the clutch was done as you suspect. Good job I'm not one to say "I told you so..." :?

 

[vaultsman]

That braided plastic petrol pipe is cr*p, and should be burned at the earliest possible opportunity. (Preferrably before it decides to do it for itself while still on the car......)

It's quite possible that the original got broken when the clutch was done as you suspect. Good job I'm not one to say "I told you so..." :?

Couldn't agree more Harvey. At least I can get at it reasonably well at the moment.

 

[vaultsman]

Spent Saturday morning underneath with the angle grinder and mole grips...

I did try splitting the welds and folding the ribs back but couldn't get them sitting flush against the tunnel. :roll:

I'm sure I won't want to go back to a 4-speed box, so out they had to come. Tough old steel, and double thickness in places.

 

[vaultsman]

This is the connection of the existing "fuel hose" at the reserve tap. I've dropped an email to Ian to see whether he's got a NOS factory hose, which I assume is nylon?

I'll need to jack the engine up and (maybe) remove the reserve tap to replace the hose (and probably the O ring while I'm at it) - how is the factory hose secured onto the tap?

Then lower the engine again to fit the gearbox, probably with a bit of packing at the back edge of the O/S rocker cover to restrict how far down the head goes. And hope I can still get the bellhousing bolts in - particularly the one above the starter motor.

What do you think guys?

 

[harveyp6]

The hose is plastic and comes permanently fixed on to the fitting that goes on the reserve tap, and on to the metal hose that goes to the pump, so ideally a good used original item would be ideal because they never give problems until they get bodged, usually after being broken.

You shouldn't have any problems getting on to any of the bellhousing bolts.

 

[vaultsman]

The hose is plastic and comes permanently fixed on to the fitting that goes on the reserve tap, and on to the metal hose that goes to the pump, so ideally a good used original item would be ideal because they never give problems until they get bodged, usually after being broken.

You shouldn't have any problems getting on to any of the bellhousing bolts.

Thanks Harvey. I'll see what Ian has at Rover Classics.

Cheers,

 

[vaultsman]

The hose is plastic and comes permanently fixed on to the fitting that goes on the reserve tap, and on to the metal hose that goes to the pump, so ideally a good used original item would be ideal because they never give problems until they get bodged, usually after being broken.

You shouldn't have any problems getting on to any of the bellhousing bolts.

Thanks Harvey. I'll see what Ian has at Rover Classics.

Cheers,

Exhausted all the usual avenues for a new or S/H hose c/w reserve tap fitting, nothing was forthcoming but Ian sent me a length of used nylon hose to try. With softening the end in boiling water the fitting can be eased/forced in, but I wasn't happy with it as the nylon didn't shrink back sufficiently to give a good grip. Rover must have had a wrinkle on this!

So I had to revert to 6mm rubber fuel hose and clips, with the engine jacked back up just enough to clear the reserve tap. So...on to the clutch at last.

The LT77 input shaft has much finer pitch splines than the P6 box, hence the need for the SD1 driven plate to match. Harvey's advice was to go for the SD1 cover/pressure plate and slave as well, although it seems some people have re-used the P6 cover and the slave with a spacer. The SD1 3-part clutch kit and slave cylinder cost me £120 and I thought that was fair.

ASIDE: If anybody's after a P6 V8 clutch kit...there's one here with only about 4,000 miles on it! PM me if interested

Clutch release components to fit. The SD1 slave cylinder has a metric inlet port thread, so I'll need to flare the fitting onto the P6 clutch hose.

Since getting the release fork, I've seen some posts around the net about the pivot post punching through the fork eventually. I know some people have strengthened the fork by welding the a strip of steel over the convex part, but I don't know how effective this would be. I suspect in standard form it'll probably see me out with the mileage/use I'll put on the car. Anyone have a view? Harvey?

Had a play around with the speedo cable. The P6 cable is long enough to get the extra few inches needed to mate with the LT77, just needs easing rearwards behind the RH glovebox. The P6 gearbox-end fitting though is different to the SD1 and can be drilled out to suit and a clamp made/modified to suit the smaller flange. Or use an SD1 fitting, which is what I'll do - having picked up an SD1 cable for a couple of quid.

Soon be time to flex my muscles and get the box in...hopefully Thursday. :roll:

 

[harveyp6]

I don't think you'll have any problems with the pivot ball wearing through the release arm if you make sure it's well Coppaslip-ed up when you fit it. Welding a plate over the top only delays the inevitable anyway.

 

[colnerov]

Hi, in Land Rover circles it is recommended to change the arm with every
clutch change. So much so that some non franchise parts dealer used to sell
kits with the arm included.

Colin

 

[harveyp6]

As I remember it, there was always more of a problem with Land/Range Rovers than with SD1's, probably because it was a bigger clutch so the release arm was always under that bit more pressure at the pivot. Mine was a daily driver for over 15 years after I did the conversion, and it hasn't worn through. (Yet.......)

 

[testrider]

You're making good progress on this Stan, methodical work as always.

Does the clip on the rubber hose clear the rocker cover at the reserve tap end?

 

[vaultsman]

You're making good progress on this Stan, methodical work as always.

Does the clip on the rubber hose clear the rocker cover at the reserve tap end?

Hi Paul,

As usual, it seems we're both working to get a list of jobs done before Spring's upon us!

I've got the engine jacked up just clear of the clip/tap but if I were let it back down it looks as if it would just foul. I'll keep the engine in this position whilst the box goes in, and hopefully I can still get at the bellhousing bolts, particularly the upper of the 2 longer ones around the starter motor.

 

[vaultsman]

Well, my mate's extra pair of hands appeared today (bless him! )

Box going in...

Torqued up - and with 8 bolts in rather than 6 :roll: - and jacking up to bring the centreline of the drive flange up to the same height as the P6 box...

Not too bad for tunnel clearance but the lug above the filler plug is just kissing the side...

SD1 rear mounting. The Metalastik mounting bobbins locate in the angled slots and the centre ovalled hole takes a snub rubber bush on an M12 bolt screwed into the centre pad on the box.

Now the interesting bit. Metalastik bobbins mounted as per SD1 configuration...

...and with the mounting bracket offered up...

Can't see how at the moment I'm going to get this to fit. If I cut away the sides to allow it to go upwards onto the bobbin studs, it seems I'll lose the flange to screw through to the tunnel.

An alternative might be to use the M8 tapped holes on the pad that's slightly forward and drill 2 holes in the mounting bracket, but mounted in these M8 holes the width across the bobbins is too great for them to sit down flat on the central part of the bracket.

Hmmm... Comments and thoughts guys?

 

[harveyp6]

I know I cut and then repositioned and rewelded both sides of the crossmember, but I can't remember exactly how, but I would have been looking at it in exactly the same way that you are now. You've positioned the rear flange in the same way as I did, and if you are lacking a little bit of clearance it can be moved slightly, or the tunnel dressed in where it's close.
All I can remember was that where the bolts came through the floor was on a bit of a curve and I was never 100% happy with that, but time has proved that it was durable enough. You could try to reweld it so it goes up the side of the tunnel and then bolt through horizontally.

If I ever take the box out to fit the Vitesse one that I have I may try to improve matters, and if your idea to fit the SD1 cable end on the P6 cable works I'd do that at the same time.

 

[vaultsman]

I know I cut and then repositioned and rewelded both sides of the crossmember, but I can't remember exactly how, but I would have been looking at it in exactly the same way that you are now. You've positioned the rear flange in the same way as I did, and if you are lacking a little bit of clearance it can be moved slightly, or the tunnel dressed in where it's close.
All I can remember was that where the bolts came through the floor was on a bit of a curve and I was never 100% happy with that, but time has proved that it was durable enough. You could try to reweld it so it goes up the side of the tunnel and then bolt through horizontally.

If I ever take the box out to fit the Vitesse one that I have I may try to improve matters, and if your idea to fit the SD1 cable end on the P6 cable works I'd do that at the same time.

Thanks Harvey, some food for thought there.

Bolting through horizontally sounds good, just a bit trickier with the drilling but I guess a pilot hole would sort that.

 

[ewokracing]

gearbox mount ideas

I had a similar problem putting a 5spd gearbox into a Mazda 1300. The gearbox mount was closer to the engine and I needed to extend the "reach" of the mount to accommodate for the longer 5spd. My problem was more along the horizontal axis whereas I see yours being a verticle/horiztontal problem.

my untrained engineering eye thought of this (apologies, I've just had a pint with lunch, it's 30 degrees and humid in the office and I used my left hand to freestyle the gearbox mount, all in lowtech mspaint but you'll get the rough idea). Basically you want to lower the rubber mounts to slot into the holes in the gearbox mount bracket. By using a piece of alloy or steel in between the rubber mounts and the gear box mount, you can do this.

if you use my idea you can pay me 1 billion pounds.

 

[vaultsman]

Re: gearbox mount ideas

I had a similar problem putting a 5spd gearbox into a Mazda 1300. The gearbox mount was closer to the engine and I needed to extend the "reach" of the mount to accommodate for the longer 5spd. My problem was more along the horizontal axis whereas I see yours being a verticle/horiztontal problem.

my untrained engineering eye thought of this (apologies, I've just had a pint with lunch, it's 30 degrees and humid in the office and I used my left hand to freestyle the gearbox mount, all in lowtech mspaint but you'll get the rough idea). Basically you want to lower the rubber mounts to slot into the holes in the gearbox mount bracket. By using a piece of alloy or steel in between the rubber mounts and the gear box mount, you can do this.

if you use my idea you can pay me 1 billion pounds.

30 degrees? Bit less than that here - though Spring's on the way!

v1.0's got some potential if I lower the box back down to fit the alloy/steel blocks, but it would leave a very long snubber bolt that might not be rigid enough. Mainly though, it leaves the bracket too low and it would foul the exhaust, reduce the ground clearance and be prone to damage.

Haven't got a billion pounds spare at the moment either.

Cheers,

 

[quattro]

Re: gearbox mount ideas

Hi Stan

Sparky's 5 speed was already fitted so I don't know exactly how it was done, but the 5 speed mount you have has been modified by flattening out the outer fixings and then bolted to new bracketry which has been welded to the inside of the centre tunnel. I'll see if I can get some pics if you like. Sparky was an auto though - so probably not a lot of good.

When I did the job, many years ago, I left the original mountings welded to the inner tunnel, then put some smaller rubber mountings into the vertical (forward) mountings on the gearbox.

Jacked the box up to where I wanted it and made a flat plate up to match up the fixing studs. I used an old bumper bracket for this - worked a treat.

Best of luck with it

Richard