Engine upgrade

Hi all .
Couple of pics , had a bit of time Sunday so started to assemble the rocker gear ( loosely bolted to the heads as i need the baffle plates off my motor when i pull it apart ) Yes Harvey , i bought the graphogen paste :D . Manifolds on . The valves i lapped in months ago . I'll do the other side over a few afternoons this week . Think i've got everything covered parts wise . I will probably Pull it apart and do the job next week or two . Looking forward to seeing how it sounds and Goes after . :D
 

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Made a start over the last few days , got the rad out , inlet off and few other bits . Cleaning and painting things up as i go .
A few questions .
Common practice seems to be to remove the lifters from the bottom after the cam is removed , i can understand the idea of not scratching the bores they run in if they're belled out underneath , and i've read the trick of dropping them into a cardboard roll , but what stops them dropping down into the depths between removing the cam and inserting the cardboard ?
Secondly , after cleaning up the block mating face prior to refitting the new heads should i be putting anything on there ? I know not casket sealant , but i seem to remember something about smearing with grease , or did i imagine that :?:
Tin gaskets BTW :D
 
Glad to see it's all getting there Stina!

I had a read back over quite a few of the pages I'd missed but didn't find which cam you'd decided on?

The outer row of head bolts is a really bizarre topic. The Oldsmobile version of our engine never had them right from 1959 and it does seem that the only reason Buick fitted them was because there was space to. They then being uncritically carried over into the Rover design. Actually there are lots of reasons why it would have been much better had Rover stumbled on the Oldsmobile rather than the Buick but that'll wait for another time!

It seems probable that the adoption of the composite gasket was the final straw, this allowing more scope for the heads to distort under the unequal loading. Nevertheless, exactly the same discussion applies with tin gaskets, so it is definitely sound engineering to ignore all factory manuals and either omit these or just do them up sufficiently for them to stay put and fill the holes up!

Chris
 
Thanks Harvey . Dry fitting it is then .
Hi Chris , good to have you back :D Cam is 3.9 landy speck with new lifters from V8 tuner ( top guy on the phone very helpful )
Think i'm gonna just locktite the outer row of bolts in ( as in i've bought a tube of thread lock :D )
Any one tell me about the lifters staying put ?
 
When you raise the lifters to remove the camshaft they'll get to the point where they're getting tight in their bores, and that should be enough to hold them there. Some of them may come out through the top easily when you do that.
 
Cheers Harvey .
I sort of thought that would be the case . So if they come up out easily that's not a problem ?
 
Just wondering why on earth you are going to Loctite the bolts in ? Thread locks are normally used when there is a chance of them shaking (or otherwise getting) loose.

If you really do feel the need, don't use 270, it's far too strong. Go for the 242 or 243.

Richard
 
Hi Richard,

That's why I asked the question, thinking along the lines of, choose one that is too strong and you'll pull the threads out of the block, if you ever try and remove the bolts.



chrisyork wrote,...
It seems probable that the adoption of the composite gasket was the final straw, this allowing more scope for the heads to distort under the unequal loading.
Click to expand...

Hi Chris,

Composite gaskets were never factory fitted beneath 14 bolt heads. They were used only for installation beneath 10 bolt heads.

Ron.
 
stina said:
Somewhere on here is a thread on the sequence to torque down the cylinder heads , and where to stop with the outer row of bolts . Can anyone find it ? Also a guy on the V8 forum said to leave them out completely , just locktite them in finger tight if i don't want to leave empty holes , his reasoning being they were deleted on the later heads any hoo .
Thoughts ?
Click to expand...

Because of the above , the outer row will be finger tight , mainly for asthectics and so as not to let the holes fill with crud . If it ruins the thread so what ? They wont be used again :wink:
 
stina said:
stina said:
Somewhere on here is a thread on the sequence to torque down the cylinder heads , and where to stop with the outer row of bolts . Can anyone find it ? Also a guy on the V8 forum said to leave them out completely , just locktite them in finger tight if i don't want to leave empty holes , his reasoning being they were deleted on the later heads any hoo .
Thoughts ?
Click to expand...

Because of the above , the outer row will be finger tight , mainly for asthectics and so as not to let the holes fill with crud . If it ruins the thread so what ? They wont be used again :wink:
Click to expand...

I think they were trying to point out that if you loctite the bolts in with something too strong the next time you have to remove the heads you run the risk of pulling the threads out of the block. That would then leave you with nothing to screw back into to fill the hole when you refit the heads. Holes then fill up with crud etc etc, which is what you're trying to avoid.

Dave
 
chrisyork wrote,...

It seems probable that the adoption of the composite gasket was the final straw, this allowing more scope for the heads to distort under the unequal loading.



Hi Chris,

Composite gaskets were never factory fitted beneath 14 bolt heads. They were used only for installation beneath 10 bolt heads.

Ron.
Click to expand...

Precisely my point, Ron. Abandoned in the development phase of the composite gaskets.

Chris
 
Evening all .
A long weekend in the garage , couple of 9 hour shifts and some good progress . Cam in , etc , some pics of progress , i actually got a little further and got carbs , air box etc fitted .
But , the problem , as there always is with these jobs !
Last thing before i came in i thought i'll just put the plugs in so as not to have them on the bench as i tidied up ( can you see where this is going ??? )
Yup , heart sink moment plug in cylinder no 5 just dropped straight in :cry: :cry: :cry: And another :cry: .
As posted earlier in this thread i have had the heads stashed away for a year or so . They were chemically cleaned when i bought them , admitidly i never wound the plugs in on the bench , for one i never had them until recently , two , i visually inspected the threads and they all looked good , finally i always try to avoid over working threads like that , my thinking being the more you use a thread the more likely you are to find trouble .
Any hoo , how to move forward ? The plug didn't wind in and not tighten up as it would with a over tightened/stripped thread . The plug just pushed into the hole with what felt like about 1 to 2 mm of slop around it . I'm confused as to what has happened , looking in with a torch the thread looks perfect . Has it been hellicoiled in the past and the insert removed ? can i reinsert one , i'm totally lost here , i remember reading in the WM that you can salvage head bolt threads , but the heads are scrap if the plug threads are buggered .
Thoughts ?
 

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How very disappointing. Just to be sure, did you try one of the plugs to see if there was any problem with the original heads or indeed one of the L92YC plugs in the SD1 heads? I appreciate that the thread lengths are different but that is irrelevent at this moment.

I have never had to use a helicoil nor have I seen one being used, so I can't help there.

Ron.
 
What do you think i did Ron ? i tried everything i could think of . It is how i have described it and i need to find how to move forward without loosing sight of the problem , if anyone can help before i have to pull it all down again and source another head i'd be greatfull :?
Sorry Ron , bit strong , but i'm still wound up like a spring and want to move forward . Gees i thought i had everything covered :cry:
 
Stina, I havn't used a Helicoil in over 35yrs, but, if the heads have been helicoiled, and the insert has been removed, leaving the enlarged helicoil thread, the first thing I would be doing is hitting the internet and local phone book for a general engineers (preferably old school) locally, and ring them a.m. tomorrow. If they cast their eye over your plug holes and say they are saveable, it shouldn't be eye watering expensive to re insert helicoils. That said, I didn't use them on cylinder heads, so there might be problems in certain the applications. There are also Wurth Timeserts but I believe they are expensive but excellent.

John.
 
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