Unadjustable steering play

[keynsham1]

I have got around half to three quarters of an inch of play in my steering at the steering wheel rim. I have power steering, and I have previously stripped and rebuilt the steering box to replace the seals. There was no signs of wear internally. Regardless of what I do to adjust the steering box, the play remains the same. The steering does appear to get tighter and looser with changes in adjustment however. I have looked at the steering UJ and this seems fine. The only other thing I can think of is the cotterpin attachment of thre UJ to the steering box. If this is loose or the cotter pin is not seating properly, this could give the impression of unadjustable play. I want to be sure that this is possible as it is a steering box removal job to sort it out!

I was just wondering if anyone has ever bumped into this before?

 

[harveyp6]

Are you sure that the play is in the steering box? There are plenty of places in the rest of the steering linkage that could account for that amount of play. Have you tried it with the drop arm clamped up so that it doesn't move? If the play is still there with the drop arm clamped the play is inside the box, if not, it's in the rest of the linkage somewhere.

 

[keynsham1]

All ball joints are new. I had to remove the drop arm to replace the seals. Have you ever tried? It is on a tapered spline. It took a Land Rover dealers around an hour to shift it and they have all the right kit! It is fully tightened now though. This is the problem really. I have rebuilt the entire steering system with either new or original unworn parts. That is why I suggested the cotter pin joint.

 

[harveyp6]

All ball joints are new. I had to remove the drop arm to replace the seals. Have you ever tried?

Not often. I have had the drop arm nut come loose though. Tightening it in-situ calls for some creative thinking.

Even though all the steering joints are new, I'd still be checking them, and then clamping the drop arm to prove the point.

 

[webmaster]

Any chance of getting somebody else to move the wheel while you investigate under dash / in engine bay etc... ?

 

[SydneyRoverP6B]

The steering box has been done and the ball joints are all new. What about the steering idler? When worn they can develop considerable play. Inspection of the n/s wheel for excessive movement while watching the idler will confirm or not.

Ron.

 

[chrisyork]

I agree, the steering idler is a very underdesigned item on the P6. Prone to coming loose on its mounting (ie the whole idler) and to wearing the bushes internally. And surprisingly quickly after overhaul too!

As a general comment, if all the swivel joints are fine then also look at whether there is any movement in the structures where things are mounted, eg the steering cloumn to the base unit, steering box and idler box to base unit, front inner wings near suspension pickups etc.

Also what about the track rod across the bulkhead flexing near the adjuster?

Hope that gives a few more ideas.

Chris

 

[keynsham1]

Thanks for all the suggestions. As far as worn parts goes, I have replaced the idler with a recon unit, the track rod is new, all ball joints are either new or were checked during rebuild, wheel bearings good, and all bushes have been replaced.

The play can only come from the system between the steering wheel as far as the drop arm on the bottom of the steering box. This really leaves the steering wheel, the steering UJ connection or the spline joint to the steering box coupling, the cotter pin joint between the coupling and the steering box input shaft, or something internal in the steering box.

I have stripped and rebuilt the steering box as the seals were leaking and an internal inspection erevealed no obvious wear to any parts. I was careful not to adjust anything inside but just to strip and reassemble it with new seals.

My feeling now is it could be the cotter pin connection, or possibly the adjustment of the preload on the rack in the steering box that engages with the teeth of the sector shaft. I am not sure what effect this would have but if it is not adjusted properly, there would be some play somewhere!

 

[quattro]

I had some strange play on mine and found that it was the three little bolts holding the steering wheel on (power steering). I prised the centre cap off, did the bolts up, made a huge difference.

Just a thought

Richard

 

[SydneyRoverP6B]

Have you reduced the steering backlash with the adjusting screw on the steering box? If not, then raise both front wheels off the ground, losen the locknut then whilst rocking the steering wheel about the straight ahead position, have an assistant tighten the adjusting screw until such time as the movement at the steering wheel is reduced to 9.5mm maximum. When this is achieved, tighten the adjuster locknut, turn the steering wheel from lock to lock and confirm that no binding or similar is felt at any point.

Ron.

 

[chrisyork]

I know that procedure on manual boxes, didn't realise the PAS one had that facility too.

Chris

 

[harveyp6]

If not, then raise both front wheels off the ground, losen the locknut then whilst rocking the steering wheel about the straight ahead position, have an assistant tighten the adjusting screw until such time as the movement at the steering wheel is reduced to 9.5mm maximum.
Ron.

Why would you do it with the wheels off the ground?

 

[SydneyRoverP6B]

harveyp6 wrote,...

Why would you do it with the wheels off the ground?

That is what it says to do in the official double volume workshop manual. I have done mine a couple of times over the years and have followed those instructions with good success.

Ron.

 

[Demetris]

harveyp6 wrote,...

Why would you do it with the wheels off the ground?

That is what it says to do in the official double volume workshop manual. I have done mine a couple of times over the years and have followed those instructions with good success.

Ron.

I guess that with the wheels off the ground you can feel easily any tight spots while you adjust, whilst this is certainly not the case when the wheels are on the ground.

 

[harveyp6]

harveyp6 wrote,...

Why would you do it with the wheels off the ground?

That is what it says to do in the official double volume workshop manual. I have done mine a couple of times over the years and have followed those instructions with good success.

Ron.

I couldn't help but check in the book myself because it just seemed so obvious that you just printed what was in the book verbatum, but if you are going to do that then you should at least have some idea why you're doing it that way. For example, when you're moving the steering wheel backwards and forwards how do you know when the freeplay stops and the steering starts moving? Very difficult to feel that point when there's no resistance. With the wheels on the ground it becomes obvious where that point is, or it should do, and there's no risk of reducing the freeplay to the point where you end up with a tight spot.
Just because it's in the book it doesn't mean that it's the best way of doing it.

 

[SydneyRoverP6B]

harveyp6 wrote,...

I couldn't help but check in the book myself because it just seemed so obvious that you just printed what was in the book verbatum, but if you are going to do that then you should at least have some idea why you're doing it that way. For example, when you're moving the steering wheel backwards and forwards how do you know when the freeplay stops and the steering starts moving?

I changed it slightly although the description given by the manual is clear and concise. For your second point, I use my eyes and my sense of feel. I agree in that with practice modifications can be made to various procedures as outlined within the workshop manual, but in this case I don't see any benefit from leaving the wheels on the ground.

Ron.

 

[keynsham1]

Since my last post regarding my unadjustable steering play, I have had a bit of a fiddle about. I have checked all ball joints, idler, hubs, steering shaft UJ and everything else I could think of, and they are all perfect. However, if you hold the drop arm on the bottom of the steering box and wiggle the steering wheel, there seems to be no movement, so the play must be coming from the box. As I said before, when you try to adjust the box with the spindle and locknut, all that happens is that the steering becomes tight in the centre position but the play appears to remain. I drained the fluid out of the system and took the top off the steering box to see if there was any obvious problems. I have rebuilt the box with new seals so I am sure there is no obvious premature wear of any parts. I do suspect that a small amount of play is to be expected though in this type of steering arrangement.
This leads me to the only thing left that it could be. When you rebuild the steering box, it is very important that the pressure applied to the fluid operated rack by its adjuster is correct otherwise you get backlash in the rack. I think that this is what I am feeling. It means that when you steer, you get slight movement before the fluid pressure acts on the rack piston and this give a bump feel in the steering wheel. It happens in both directions, giving an inflated feel of slack in the steering.

This doesn't quite make sense to me but it is the only thing left in the system that it could be. As Sherlock Holmes once said "when you have eliminated the possible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the cause" (I changed that quout to suit for all Sherlock Holmes fans)

I plan to try and tighten the adjustment in the side of the box to see if I can remove this strange feeling. I will report back later!

 

[chrisyork]

I'm most impressed by this attention to detail. Most people able to produce such a stunning car as yours tend to be happy with shiny bodywork and a beatiful interrior and then ignore the mechanics! I'm afraid I'm the reverse - I demand technical perfection but am rather less concerned about appearance.

Chris

 

[keynsham1]

For anyone who is interested, here are some pictures of the inside of your power steering box!

 

[keynsham1]

For those interested, today I solved my steering play problem. It was indeed the adjustment of the rack in the steering box.Luckily this can be easily checked and adjusted but not in accordance with correct procedure, without removing the box from the car. The manual talks about removing the box to set the correct torque on the input shaft for correct gear mesh pressure. I gave tghe adjuster a turn until there was no more play, and then a small extra tweak. (I am an Aircraft engineer by trade so I understand what a small extra tweak really means!). All is now well.