Three Thousand Five V8 spec and thoughts

[jamesdean2112]

Hello everyone

As you will be aware I am in progress rebuilding my P6 3500. I am now at the stage of getting the engine sorted.
This is my first car and project so engines are obviously a new zone too so i'm learning as i go.

There are few questions i have plus i would be really grateful for any feedback and advice for the plans i have for the motor.

So far i have ordered a full engine gasket set. I plan on replacing the valley, heads, rockers, sump and the front end gaskets plus a few others here and there. I am thinking of getting some rubber gaskets for the rockers and sump. I'm guessing these don't need sealant? May get a new crank seal while i'm on with the timing chain.

Another parcel i have coming, although ive been informed it will take 6 week :cry: is from burlen. A HS6 rebuild kit along with damper oil and needles. For the needles i was thinking of going for kk as i had plans for putting cone filters inside the airbox but i have decided i will experiment with that later on. For now i'm keeping it original so i've gone for a standard set of needles, but the slightly richer set of KL. I'd rather it be that bit richer, than lean. No idea what is in the car so far. I plan to get the engine running again after its freshen up, get it on a dyno and go from there.

Another thing i had planned was a high pressure oil pump kit but i have chickened out of this after reading a few threads on the subject so i have decided to put the money i would have spent there into a better than standard timing chain. It would have been nice knowing it was fitted but the installation looks a bit beyond me at points. i never had any problems with the engine before i took it out.

The timing chain i will order will be the Simplex Clevite Heavy duty from V8 Tuner. It's not much more expensive than standard but will last longer. I'm guessing you order by phone from them?

While on V8 tuner i saw a few inexpensive things that i thought might be worth a go. Bulleted valve guides being one. i will be taking the heads off, what are your thoughts?
I also saw a set of rocker shafts, this would depend on if mine are worn tho. Will help with pressure.

As for the ignition i am going for lucas electronic to get rid of the little box and ten yard of wiring with the lumenition i have.
For spark plugs, what are the best available other than the copper plus L92YC. Any platinum ones around? Probably go for powerspark HT leads.

As for general dismantling of heads etc and exposing of pistons, pushrods, valves is there anything i should/shouldn't clean and polish. i will inspect the lifters for proper wear signs. i'd like to get the engine as clean as possible from what i'm doing.

keep looking at core plugs, how do you remove them?

Would love to hear you're thoughts on this i'll keep this my little engine thread like Stina did

 

[SydneyRoverP6B]

Hi James,

I am thinking of getting some rubber gaskets for the rockers and sump. I'm guessing these don't need sealant?

I have not used a rubber sump gasket before, but with the rubber rocker cover gaskets and the rubber seals that fit at either end beneath the valley gasket, a small amount of Hylosil type 101 or 106 is recommended.

Bulleted valve guides being one. i will be taking the heads off, what are your thoughts?
I also saw a set of rocker shafts, this would depend on if mine are worn tho. Will help with pressure.

I would opt for having the heads refurbished. An engineering shop that specialises in head work will make them look like new. An alternative might be to source a pair of refurbished SD1 or later Range Rover heads, given the minimal cost involved.

Unless your existing rocker shafts are noticeably worn, fitting new ones will make little if any difference to your existing oil pressure.

For spark plugs, what are the best available other than the copper plus L92YC. Any platinum ones around? Probably go for powerspark HT leads.

For the 10.5 : 1 engine, the Champion L92YC plugs are the best to use. Platinum plugs on a non fuel injected engine running a distributor etc is a waste of money. Magnecor leads in my view are the best to use, you'll easily see over 20 years of quality service from one set, and even then they won't need replacing.

As for general dismantling of heads etc and exposing of pistons, pushrods, valves is there anything i should/shouldn't clean and polish. i will inspect the lifters for proper wear signs. i'd like to get the engine as clean as possible from what i'm doing.

I would strongly advise against cleaning or attempting to clean the piston crowns. It is very likely that the lifters will not withdraw from above, and in any case, if they are worn, you would need to replace the camshaft also as fitting new lifters with a used camshaft is not a good idea at all.

Look forward to seeing your progress James

Ron.

 

[stina]

Hi James , Sounds like your having fun
It's always hard to advise someone else , not knowing their budget or what they're comfortable tackling their self
If you have low oil pressure i'd still consider the high volume oil pump kit , if your happy with how the pressure is and it still has around 15 psi ticking over when hot your o.k you can always come back to it in a year or two . Rubber rocker gaskets , i just fitted them , and have removed them since a few times they still seal really well , don't know about the sump as i have a cork one there , it will obviously be dealing with more oil though , so you decide
I'd go for the timing set you mentioned , it's not as fancy as some , but more than up to the job , Give V8 tuner a ring , really help full bloke , he'll talk you through anything your unsure about .
If you have any doubts about the cam or lifters this is the time to change them as a set !
As for the heads , like Ron said i'd be looking out for a good pair of SD1 or later heads , They flow better and are unleaded safe ( There is a grey area around weather P6 heads are or not ! ) I picked mine up for 70 quid already chemically cleaned , they looked like new ( I wish i'd fitted new guides while they were off , but that's hind sight , and the budget was already busted )
If you do decide on rockers and shafts then again go to V8 tuner , While not genuine Rover , they are not cheep copies !
See you at Blenheim ?

 

[rockdemon]

Id echo all the above. I'm currently putting the high pressure pump onto sleipnir so in a week or so you can see some more pics if that helps....

 

[quattro]

If you are going to replace the timing chain, you need the front cover off. If you are even faintly considering uprating the oil pump, this would be the ideal time as having the cover in your hand makes the job 20 times easier.

The first one I did was done in situ, and was a bit of a pain.

To be honest, I changed the mains and big end shells at the same time, and it totally transformed the engine. Much quieter and so much smoother.

Well worth the effort.

Hope it all goes well

Richard

 

[jamesdean2112]

Thank you very much every one. This is a big help

Thanks Ron some useful stuff there. i have had a quick look up for some Magnecor, found a black set which will do nicely, thanks for the recommendation.

I didn't have any plans for changing heads but if they are unleaded safe then i may be persuaded. I will have a look for wear when i get some bits off. I might do a camshaft change down the line but i would be very uneasy about bedding a new one in with paste after the engine has been sat for a few month. i'd like to get the engine starting first time. It is something i'm considering in the future.
I'll see if there are any heads around. Are they a straight swap over? I don't want to have to be getting anything milled out. If the standard S1 Exhaust manifolds would fit i'd be happy. Thanks for the advice Stina, i saw you recommend the timing chain i'll keep the high pressure pump in mind for the future, i don't have a psi gauge in the car so i wouldn't know about that. Thanks rockdemon i always enjoy seeing pics and it would be a big help.

When it comes to the engine i am aiming for a standard appearance with the work being on the inside. No chrome covers and Holley carbs here Budget wise, for now i'm trying to keep it on the low side as i'm trying to have it back on the road in new paint before the cold months start. But in the future i might put more into the engine. I should imagine i'll keep car until im 25. Thats about 4 year away. The engine has done nearly 44000 miles so i am hoping for a decent condition engine, its just the the previous services i don't have any record of so that will be the signs of wear i'm sure. It was ready for a service when i bought it.

I won't be at Blenheim i'm afraid stina, maybe next year.

Thanks Richard, It would be handy to do it at this point but the installation just looks a bit of a job from what i have seen so far. i'll keep thinking about it.
The sump is coming off so ill be able to look at the shells etc but again, might be a bit over a novice like me

 

[ghce]

If you do decide on rockers and shafts then again go to V8 tuner , While not genuine Rover , they are not cheep copies !
See you at Blenheim ?

when I had my rocker shafts replaced in about 1989 the Rover dealership works manager recommended to not use the factory OEM shafts as they were too soft (he had also been formally a works manager at the Nelson assembly plant) I had no reason to doubt his inside knowledge and expertise, they ended up fitting a set of USA made shafts.

Graeme

 

[stina]

If you do decide on rockers and shafts then again go to V8 tuner , While not genuine Rover , they are not cheep copies !
See you at Blenheim ?

when I had my rocker shafts replaced in about 1989 the Rover dealership works manager recommended to not use the factory OEM shafts as they were too soft (he had also been formally a works manager at the Nelson assembly plant) I had no reason to doubt his inside knowledge and expertise, they ended up fitting a set of USA made shafts.

Graeme

The ones V8 Tuner supplies are made in Detroit

 

[SydneyRoverP6B]

ghce wrote,...

when I had my rocker shafts replaced in about 1989 the Rover dealership works manager recommended to not use the factory OEM shafts as they were too soft (he had also been formally a works manager at the Nelson assembly plant) I had no reason to doubt his inside knowledge and expertise, they ended up fitting a set of USA made shafts.

Back in the 1980s I was told by more than one person involved with servicing and/or selling Rover parts, that there were two types of OEM shafts fitted to Rover V8 engines. The first type of shaft was a nickel plated aluminium alloy. The second type was a hard chrome steel. The former would suffer considerable wear on the underside between the rockers, where the coil springs reside. As a result, a direct negative impact on oil pressure would follow. The latter type would fair much better I was told, although they were quite rare so I was led to believe.

When I pulled the heads off my Rover's original engine in 1997 after some 164,000 Miles (264,000km) following a head gasket failure, I was expecting to find the former type of rocker shafts, although I had not seen any noticeable drop in oil pressure. To my surprise I found a pair of hard chrome steel shafts, the same as I had purchased to replace them. They displayed no wear marks of any significance, indeed I could have reused them without any issues at all.

Ron.

 

[SydneyRoverP6B]

jamesdean2112 wrote,...

The engine has done nearly 44000 miles so i am hoping for a decent condition engine, its just the the previous services i don't have any record of so that will be the signs of wear i'm sure. It was ready for a service when i bought it.

Hi James,

I remember the service manager at the Rover dealership that I would frequent during the mid to late 1980's, told me that the Rover V8 engine should last at least 180,000 Miles (300,000km) prior to needing a major rebuild. Of course with less than recommended servicing, that lifespan will be somewhat compromised.

If your engine has only covered 44,000 Miles since new, and isn't on it second lap around, then unless it has been neglected, the degree of wear within should be very minimal indeed. You should be able to gauge to some degree the condition it might be in by looking under the oil filler cap and within the rocker cover. What do you see? Is the colour silver, shades of brown or black?

I am pleased that you found a set of Magnecor leads, I have been using them since 1989, they won't let you down!

Ron.

 

[ghce]

Mine must have been the former as the wear on the undersides was severe however oil pressure readings had not been affected, the rocker shafts only being noticed as part of camshaft replacement which had been so bad that the engine refused to start!


Graeme

 

[ghce]

jamesdean2112 wrote,...

The engine has done nearly 44000 miles so i am hoping for a decent condition engine, its just the the previous services i don't have any record of so that will be the signs of wear i'm sure. It was ready for a service when i bought it.

Hi James,

I remember the service manager at the Rover dealership that I would frequent during the mid to late 1980's, told me that the Rover V8 engine should last at least 180,000 Miles (300,000km) prior to needing a major rebuild. Of course with less than recommended servicing, that lifespan will be somewhat compromised.

If your engine has only covered 44,000 Miles since new, and isn't on it second lap around, then unless it has been neglected, the degree of wear within should be very minimal indeed. You should be able to gauge to some degree the condition it might be in by looking under the oil filler cap and within the rocker cover. What do you see? Is the colour silver, shades of brown or black?

I am pleased that you found a set of Magnecor leads, I have been using them since 1989, they won't let you down!

Ron.

Barring camshaft (and attendant cam followers) rocker shafts and timing gear and chain as Ron has said you should fully expect to see extremely high mileages out of the RV8 engine as many on this forum who have had their cars for very long times with well known histories can attest.


Graeme

 

[stina]

Graeme ,
At the time you started to wonder about what rocker gear you were running , and what sort of carbrotouter to bolt onto the top of the whole thing . Was it still in your mind to change the "O" ring in your fuel reserve tap :?

 

[jamesdean2112]

Thanks a lot guys, i've seen a few american made parts on the V8 tuner website. Think the lifters are american made.
Ron, now i know i can get some performance HT's in black ill definatley be going for Magnecor when i can afford them. As for the filler cap. It does have some brown tint to it but only a small amount. the rocker shafts have a fair bit of brown tint on them from what i can see through the filler hole.

cheers guys

 

[ghce]

Graeme ,
At the time you started to wonder about what rocker gear you were running , and what sort of carbrotouter to bolt onto the top of the whole thing . Was it still in your mind to change the "O" ring in your fuel reserve tap :?

Yes Stina, that O-ring seal has been giving me sleepless nights since 1989!! Most especially since I use it every tank of gas.
Many are the nights I wake in a cold sweat thinking that the poor carbrotouter should not have to be fed with an O-ring of such dubious reliability.....39 years and 11 months since it's original fitment.
when next I am in the garage (in 16,000 kms and 4 weeks time) I will be replacing both front engine mounts (thanks Mark Gray) and will again gaze upon that hard to get to little block of mispositioned Rover engineering and will weigh up the thought of contorted and aching fingers and the shall I have a beer instead thought......probably the latter will win out .....damn 10 cent O-ring.


Graeme

 

[SydneyRoverP6B]

jamesdean2112 wrote,...

As for the filler cap. It does have some brown tint to it but only a small amount. the rocker shafts have a fair bit of brown tint on them from what i can see through the filler hole.

It is not black, so that is a good indication James that the engine has been serviced satisfactorily. Assuming the mileage is genuine, then the engine is barely worn in, so apart from rebuilding the carburettors, I would be inclined to leave it exactly as it is at this stage. Change the flame traps, clean out the adjoining hoses, new filters all round, new distributor leads and electronic ignition, nice new paint job and away you go.

Ron.

 

[jamesdean2112]

That sounds grand Ron, That has made me happy Think that is what i'll do then. Still going to inspect a few areas. there was a lot of oil on the engine and baseunit so i'm replacing gaskets as a precaution. It will be clean when it goes back in so spotting any leaks should be pretty easy.

The carb rebuild should hopefully ensure it runs correctly with a new timing chain also.

cheers
James

 

[jamesdean2112]

Well, the engine is now on it's home made stand. Ready for cleaning. Have my gasket set ready and blue Hylomar. Still a few things to order soon

 

[jamesdean2112]

Hi everyone,
Today i have taken the manifolds off the engine to get ready for painting. While i was at it i thought i would have a look under the rocker covers for the first time and inspect the condition inside.

I took one side off and immediately spotted a problem. The cover that attaches to one side of the rocker assembly was fitted incorrectly. A big corner of it was sat in the head :shock: and the rocker ends have some wear damage. Not too much damage i think, I just hope this contact between the 2 hasn't worn any thing else? I will try and find a replacement cover and fit it the right way round when i put it back together. I took the other side off and thankfully that was fitted correctly.

I'm certain this must have been the source of the loud ticking noise the car made on the road. I could hear a slight noise on tick over coming from this side of the engine.

looks like one of the rocker cover gaskets has shrunk too which will get sorted when the rubber ones are fitted.

here are some photos,

Despite this damage i have found, what do you all reckon to the condition so far? I will give the rocker covers a good clean on the insides.

Contact with rockers



loose bit in the head


Driver side condition



Covers

 

[SydneyRoverP6B]

Hi James,

From what I have seen, the view seems fairly typical of what to expect for the P6B engine. The colour is not jet black which is a good sign, and there is no obvious sludge that I can see. The accumulated grit that appears obvious upon the baffle plates is also normal for the P6B engine.

Cleaning the inside surface of the rocker covers along with the baffle plates is as far as I would go, apart from removing the broken pieces of metal. I wonder if they were fitted incorrectly in the factory of an owner at a later date managed to make the mistake. From the photos, the wear on the rockers appears to be fairly slight, which is a good thing. You could if you wanted to, gently file any rough sections left on the rockers as a result of the contact with the baffle plate. This will assist in limiting the possibility of the formation of stress risers.

Ron.