Tapping top end
- Thread starter stina
- Start date
Hi Stina
Combination of needing new reading glasses and small (and very bad loading) pictures mean I haven't learnt a lot from them! But well done on head no 1! If you're right about the inlet manifold that should have cured most of the running problems! Fix problem no 1 by accident in the process of fixing problem no 2!
Have you got the water pump off yet?
Before you put the inle manifold back on. don't forget to rod out all the coolant passages, particular the ones in the tower.
All the best
Chris
Combination of needing new reading glasses and small (and very bad loading) pictures mean I haven't learnt a lot from them! But well done on head no 1! If you're right about the inlet manifold that should have cured most of the running problems! Fix problem no 1 by accident in the process of fixing problem no 2!
Have you got the water pump off yet?
Before you put the inle manifold back on. don't forget to rod out all the coolant passages, particular the ones in the tower.
All the best
Chris
stina
New Member
Hi guys
quick post , off to bed now , been out for the evening forgetting rover wows ! yes both heads done now ,torqued down to 70 lb.ft ( woah ) . gonna put some time into cleaning up manifold , various brackets ect . Chris . No , not attempted water pump yet , every time i look at it i spray it with wd40 , will get the gourage to have a crack at it in the week . Can't be as nerve wracking as head bolts . I'm thinking if you rodgered that back one by the heat shield it would be motor out to fix it ! any hoo , we're beyond that now . Not a bad weekends work .
stina
quick post , off to bed now , been out for the evening forgetting rover wows ! yes both heads done now ,torqued down to 70 lb.ft ( woah ) . gonna put some time into cleaning up manifold , various brackets ect . Chris . No , not attempted water pump yet , every time i look at it i spray it with wd40 , will get the gourage to have a crack at it in the week . Can't be as nerve wracking as head bolts . I'm thinking if you rodgered that back one by the heat shield it would be motor out to fix it ! any hoo , we're beyond that now . Not a bad weekends work .
stina
Nice work - you'll get there! More time you take using penetrating oil on the water pump bolts the more chance of success! If they feel like they wont move possibly worth a go with a heat gun prior to trying to remove them. Might just make the difference... Nothing more annoying (or potentially expensive)than a snapped bolt!
unstable load
Well-Known Member
Stina, when you stick it all back together (or the garage does it) please ensure you give the bolts a good smear of Never Seez Nickle compound. That will prevent any future woes from occurring.
stina
New Member
Hi guys .
No good news today , one of the long water pump bolts snapped despite soaking them for days . and four of the short ones . They were totally grown to the holes in the casing . Couldn't even get pump off of snapped studs without cutting through stud holes . It's off now without any damage to mating surface of timing cover . But i'm going to have to remove timing cover to get snapped stud out . It must be snapped in the thread as their is just about one turn of thread left on stud . The short ones should be easier . How involved is removing the timing cover ? dizzy is out . Does the oil pump come forward with cover ? Is the crank pulley the night mare it looks ?
Also been looking back through some old posts , and am worried now . I put the head bolts back in cleaned but dry . No lube / thread seal , now i'm starting to wonder if this was the right thing to do . I also torqued them to 70 lb/ft as this was the figure in the manual . Now i'm starting to wonder if that was right ? Help !
stina
No good news today , one of the long water pump bolts snapped despite soaking them for days . and four of the short ones . They were totally grown to the holes in the casing . Couldn't even get pump off of snapped studs without cutting through stud holes . It's off now without any damage to mating surface of timing cover . But i'm going to have to remove timing cover to get snapped stud out . It must be snapped in the thread as their is just about one turn of thread left on stud . The short ones should be easier . How involved is removing the timing cover ? dizzy is out . Does the oil pump come forward with cover ? Is the crank pulley the night mare it looks ?
Also been looking back through some old posts , and am worried now . I put the head bolts back in cleaned but dry . No lube / thread seal , now i'm starting to wonder if this was the right thing to do . I also torqued them to 70 lb/ft as this was the figure in the manual . Now i'm starting to wonder if that was right ? Help !
stina
Hello Stina,
I'd pop the head bolts back out again in the correct order one at a time, apply an anti seize lubricant and refit to the correct torque. Did you set the outer 4 bolts adjacent to the spark plugs to 20lbs/ft?
The pulley has a factory torque of 160lbs/ft, so it will be pretty tight. The oil pump will come away with the timing cover. You can remove the front cover...the part with the spigot that the oil filter attaches to, which will give access to the oil pump gears inside the timing cover.
You will need a new crankshaft oil seal too, and Ian at Rover Classics has these.
Ron.
I'd pop the head bolts back out again in the correct order one at a time, apply an anti seize lubricant and refit to the correct torque. Did you set the outer 4 bolts adjacent to the spark plugs to 20lbs/ft?
The pulley has a factory torque of 160lbs/ft, so it will be pretty tight. The oil pump will come away with the timing cover. You can remove the front cover...the part with the spigot that the oil filter attaches to, which will give access to the oil pump gears inside the timing cover.
You will need a new crankshaft oil seal too, and Ian at Rover Classics has these.
Ron.
stina
New Member
Hi Ron
No i had a real dilemma deciding weather to torque the outer bolts or not . No one gave me a reason why not to so i went with the manual . Looks like i may of made the wrong decision then ! I did ask what thread seal / lubricant to use but as mo one came back to me i did them dry , looks like another wrong move ! I still don't know what lubricant to use on head bolts . looking back through old posts it seems like a gray area . Maybe no one wants to open a can of worms ! I've read everything from engine oil to some exotic , long extinct , compound . Without going to the end of the earth , spending a fortune on something made of unicorn horn ,for lubricating virgins , and rover head bolts . What can i use , copper slip , oil, or other locally available potion ? Also is 70 lb/ft correct ? Please help someone . I need it back on the road . As i have to move it back and forth to get to the front to work on it , i've nearly pushed it as far as i've driven it !
Cheers stina
No i had a real dilemma deciding weather to torque the outer bolts or not . No one gave me a reason why not to so i went with the manual . Looks like i may of made the wrong decision then ! I did ask what thread seal / lubricant to use but as mo one came back to me i did them dry , looks like another wrong move ! I still don't know what lubricant to use on head bolts . looking back through old posts it seems like a gray area . Maybe no one wants to open a can of worms ! I've read everything from engine oil to some exotic , long extinct , compound . Without going to the end of the earth , spending a fortune on something made of unicorn horn ,for lubricating virgins , and rover head bolts . What can i use , copper slip , oil, or other locally available potion ? Also is 70 lb/ft correct ? Please help someone . I need it back on the road . As i have to move it back and forth to get to the front to work on it , i've nearly pushed it as far as i've driven it !
Cheers stina
I dont know if there's any specific recommendation - I used copper grease on mine...
I too didnt know about the outer row of bolts until they were nipped up but not torqued and I did them to 20. The inner 2 rows are as per the manual. I think there's a page on the RPI website about this?
Rich.
I too didnt know about the outer row of bolts until they were nipped up but not torqued and I did them to 20. The inner 2 rows are as per the manual. I think there's a page on the RPI website about this?
Rich.
vaultsman
Well-Known Member
Hi Christina,
70 lb. ft. is correct, but it's wise to leave the outer 4 bolts on each head at a much lower figure. Rover themselves deleted these 4 bolts on later versions of the V8.
IIRC the manual specifies 3M EC776 for the bolts. I didn't have any when I did mine, and used some Never-Seez from work.
========================
Extract from my top-end rebuild thread re the head bolts:
Re: Top end rebuild
by vaultsman on Sun Mar 22, 2009 8:42 pm
By the way...comments welcomed..
Heads torqued down in 4 stages'...all in line with the order on Harvey's sheet...
1-14 to 25 lb ft..and 11-14 left at that...
1-10 in 3 stages to 70 lb ft...hopefully no blowing!
========================
Good Luck!
70 lb. ft. is correct, but it's wise to leave the outer 4 bolts on each head at a much lower figure. Rover themselves deleted these 4 bolts on later versions of the V8.
IIRC the manual specifies 3M EC776 for the bolts. I didn't have any when I did mine, and used some Never-Seez from work.
========================
Extract from my top-end rebuild thread re the head bolts:
Re: Top end rebuild
by vaultsman on Sun Mar 22, 2009 8:42 pm
By the way...comments welcomed..
Heads torqued down in 4 stages'...all in line with the order on Harvey's sheet...
1-14 to 25 lb ft..and 11-14 left at that...
1-10 in 3 stages to 70 lb ft...hopefully no blowing!
========================
Good Luck!
stina
New Member
Hi Stan
Just going out to fiddle now . Will leave head bolts alone until i have something suitable to lubricate them . What is the auntie seize you used and where can i get it , who makes it ? I know rich said coppa slip but others seem to disagree ! Heads are torqued down . Think all i can do is remove one at a time and lube then re torque . Then hope it holds out . Want to avoid another set of gaskets if poss . It obviously hasn't been started .
stina
Just going out to fiddle now . Will leave head bolts alone until i have something suitable to lubricate them . What is the auntie seize you used and where can i get it , who makes it ? I know rich said coppa slip but others seem to disagree ! Heads are torqued down . Think all i can do is remove one at a time and lube then re torque . Then hope it holds out . Want to avoid another set of gaskets if poss . It obviously hasn't been started .
stina
vaultsman
Well-Known Member
vaultsman said:
Stina, this was this stuff..
When we were running heat treatment furnaces we used to use it when fitting the heating element leadouts.
You'd be better off with Harvey's suggestion of asking around on here for the 3M product, I think. Sorry I can't be more help.
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stina
New Member
HHHHMMMM
Still confused . Like Rich , thought copper slip would be o.k . Looking back through old threads maybe not . I'll have to look around for 3M stuff . What about taking them out one at a time , lubricating then re fitting to correct torque ?
On a brighter note i did get the crank pulley off and timing cover . Pulley bolt was hard work . I made a tourniquet out of old trolley jack handle and length of rope . Twisted tight and wedged under inner wing . Bit Heath Robinson but with a little swearing , a skinned thumb and a few attempts it worked ! Can see the snapped water pump bolt . It's quite accessible . Sheared off flush with surface of block . I think it had turned a couple of threads before it snapped ( their nearly three threads left on snapped bolt ) Any ideas on removing it ?
cheers anty anti auntie stina ! We don't go to school in Dorset
Still confused . Like Rich , thought copper slip would be o.k . Looking back through old threads maybe not . I'll have to look around for 3M stuff . What about taking them out one at a time , lubricating then re fitting to correct torque ?
On a brighter note i did get the crank pulley off and timing cover . Pulley bolt was hard work . I made a tourniquet out of old trolley jack handle and length of rope . Twisted tight and wedged under inner wing . Bit Heath Robinson but with a little swearing , a skinned thumb and a few attempts it worked ! Can see the snapped water pump bolt . It's quite accessible . Sheared off flush with surface of block . I think it had turned a couple of threads before it snapped ( their nearly three threads left on snapped bolt ) Any ideas on removing it ?
cheers anty anti auntie stina ! We don't go to school in Dorset