Rover P6 Diff - How Strong is it? Other options?

[Kman1600]

This is why it is so much easier to weld up a frame, bolt the Jaguar differential assembly underneath and fit custom length propshaft and driveshafts

Hi,

I couldn’t agree more, the path of least resistance and the one with the highest guarantee of success is to fit the Jag LSD, complete with it’s much superior brakes. When I spoke to Alan at Classeparts at the start of our project he indicated that the work he had done was aimed at racers who by the wording of the rules they raced under had to use the standard diff casting. If you are not bound by such rules then you really don’t need to limit your options.

The Jag Diff is the way to go.

Tim

 

[sowen]

This is why it is so much easier to weld up a frame, bolt the Jaguar differential assembly underneath and fit custom length propshaft and driveshafts

Hi,

I couldn’t agree more, the path of least resistance and the one with the highest guarantee of success is to fit the Jag LSD, complete with it’s much superior brakes. When I spoke to Alan at Classeparts at the start of our project he indicated that the work he had done was aimed at racers who by the wording of the rules they raced under had to use the standard diff casting. If you are not bound by such rules then you really don’t need to limit your options.

The Jag Diff is the way to go.

Tim

I've considered and done a quick costing into the viability of developing a bolt on 'conversion kit' for the Jaguar differential assembly into the Rover deDion suspension similar to what I've already done to my turbo project. I believe it's a non starter as I don't think there's enough interest out there to invest my time and money into it considering the overall cost of parts and my labour. There's only been a handfull of conversions done and they've all be significantly different so it would clearly need developing on a roadgoing car.

As a fun little project for the committed it adds peace of mind that the back end (apart from the suspension parts) can handle big power 8)

 

[RoverAlex]

Simon - how about a poll to see how many would be interested in such a conversion? I think few would doubt your skills to pull it off so it would be more of a case of what demand is there?

If you need a rolling, road legal test bed....

Alex

 

[quattro]

I've considered and done a quick costing into the viability of developing a bolt on 'conversion kit' for the Jaguar differential assembly

oh go on - that will make things considerably easier for me

I just bought this

 

[RoverAlex]

How much did that set you back and what car was it from?

 

[PeterZRH]

Oh, a bolt on kit and source your own Jag diff. Yes please. This has to be far more viable than a custom LSD.

What ratios can Jag offer?

 

[Kman1600]

Oh, a bolt on kit and source your own Jag diff. Yes please. This has to be far more viable than a custom LSD.

What ratios can Jag offer?

Hi,

For this to be a success you need someone like Alan at Classeparts to take it on as a commercial venture, should sit reasonable well with his other offerings. You need some sort of diff cradle, 3 drive shafts (either new or modified on an exchange basis) and a brake limiter as the rear brake bias will be dangerous without it. We are talking Hundreds here but it will transform a spiritedly driven car, believe me I know We took our direction, well covered in the blog, so largely academic for us, our direction suits a competition car but the car remains surprisingly P6 like and practical.

Anyway I hope this comes to something…..

Tim

 

[sowen]

Oh, a bolt on kit and source your own Jag diff. Yes please. This has to be far more viable than a custom LSD.

What ratios can Jag offer?

Hi,

For this to be a success you need someone like Alan at Classeparts to take it on as a commercial venture, should sit reasonable well with his other offerings. You need some sort of diff cradle, 3 drive shafts (either new or modified on an exchange basis) and a brake limiter as the rear brake bias will be dangerous without it. We are talking Hundreds here but it will transform a spiritedly driven car, believe me I know We took our direction, well covered in the blog, so largely academic for us, our direction suits a competition car but the car remains surprisingly P6 like and practical.

Anyway I hope this comes to something…..

Tim

My estimated figure came to 4 digits, even then that would require whoever was doing the conversion to buy in addition a suitable differential with serviceable brakes, and supply all of the specific Rover parts so the final cost would be higher still, £1500+. For the development a completely standard car would need to be acquired for all testing, then a few guinea pigs to prove that it does in fact bolt on to other cars to cover tolerances of original manufacture. The braking imbalance is an issue and so would the exhaust system clearance. A jig would need to be fabricated and stored somewhere, in addition to the upfront purchasing of materials, some specific parts, final surface finishing/protection and not forgetting time/labour to build the parts to make it worth the effort.

I've not even started looking into the liabilities and legalities of manufacturing critical components....

 

[Baron von Marlon]

I've not even started looking into the liabilities and legalities of manufacturing critical components....

i wouldn't even contemplate it without some form of product liability insurance! I don't expect that will be cheap for safety critical components.

If you ever want a trial vehicle, give me a shout :wink: I'm planning on going full Jag though, not incorporating the diff into the DeDion setup. I haven't decided quite how that's going to look yet, but I'm probably going to take elements of the various conversions that have been done so far.

 

[sowen]

I've not even started looking into the liabilities and legalities of manufacturing critical components....

i wouldn't even contemplate it without some form of product liability insurance! I don't expect that will be cheap for safety critical components.

If you ever want a trial vehicle, give me a shout :wink: I'm planning on going full Jag though, not incorporating the diff into the DeDion setup. I haven't decided quite how that's going to look yet, but I'm probably going to take elements of the various conversions that have been done so far.

Using the entire Jaguar IRS eliminates pretty much all of the weaknesses of the aging Rover deDion suspension. That is another point, having the option of trebling the power through the transmission, one can only imagine what breakages will occur on some of the heavily rusted elbows and arms out there?

Maybe one of those things that making a conversion should permanently remain just a good idea.

 

[RoverAlex]

I am keen to keep the de-dion. I really like the way it rides. Supple enough (even when lowered quite a bit) to not be harsh but firm enough (with uprated bits) not to fall off the road at every corner. It's not like anything else I have driven.

Damn, this should not be left at the good idea phase!

 

[sowen]

I am keen to keep the de-dion. I really like the way it rides. Supple enough (even when lowered quite a bit) to not be harsh but firm enough (with uprated bits) not to fall off the road at every corner. It's not like anything else I have driven.

Damn, this should not be left at the good idea phase!

I could knock up a few odd bits to help get a few conversions going, but I'd need to get properly familiar with the underside of the 3500, if only I had kept my old one! As for making a small commercial venture of it, the lack of firm interest and high end costs make it unviable.

My blue turbo P6 is due back in the workshop shortly, although I have no plans to be working on the back end, I could look into drawing something up? Time and money is lacking on my side so I can't make any promises.

 

[RoverAlex]

Ah well, bugger. If you could look into drawing something up I think there would be a number of people that would appreciate it.

 

[corazon]

If it's any help Alex, I've finally been able to make start on mine after over a year of building up parts, procrastination, and other commitments. My design is very similar to the Cali 5000tc mounting at the rear, using the original mountings. The 3500 base unit already has the strong rear crossmember which will link the two ladder bars I'm fabricating with stainless threaded rod ends and rose joints at the diff. So the only modification to the base unit will be four tabs welded to the rear crossmember where the ladder bars attach. I do have anxiety over the de dion elbows, mine look good but I'm going to give them the molasses treatment and see what emerges. I do plan on reinforcing them since the power and torque will be significantly higher. Once I'm happy with their strength I'll black epoxy prime them along with the rest of the underside
Jim

 

[quattro]

How much did that set you back and what car was it from?

I got it for £350 but hope to sell some of it on. It's from an XJS and is the 2.88 powerlock, just what I was after 8)

I could knock up a few odd bits to help get a few conversions going, but I'd need to get properly familiar with the underside of the 3500, if only I had kept my old one! As for making a small commercial venture of it, the lack of firm interest and high end costs make it unviable.

My blue turbo P6 is due back in the workshop shortly, although I have no plans to be working on the back end, I could look into drawing something up? Time and money is lacking on my side so I can't make any promises.

Not ready to fit it yet as I am still renovating an old building I bought earlier in the year, and it's taken up all of my time, but it's nice to know you are thinking about making up some bits to help. I would certainly be interested in anything you do decide to make.

Richard

 

[Brown Hornet]

Just some pics, have a lot more just lost on my comp, works like a clamp has done 5000klm hard times.

 

[unstable load]

The bloke I mentioned earlier with the Alfa transaxle has now moved on to a BMW LSD in a cradle.

 

[sowen]

Not ready to fit it yet as I am still renovating an old building I bought earlier in the year, and it's taken up all of my time, but it's nice to know you are thinking about making up some bits to help. I would certainly be interested in anything you do decide to make.

Richard

If I had more space/time/money I'd be up for knocking up a jig and testbed and working with a few people to develop something, new business venture has sucked all my finances and time up putting a lot of stuff on hold for a while