More pep wanted....

[dirtydoogle]

Wouldn't mind a wee bit more pep from my 73 3.5 auto. Have been thinking the SD1 heads, petronix or similar elec ignition, 3.9 RR cam. Already have a Holley 390 and a nice free enough flowing exhaust. No emissions rubbish left on her. Engine has done 89Miles and feels fairly nice and tight. A goal could be, say, 200hp? Not too fussed, just want her to rev a bit happier. I will be doing head gaskets, just because I can and a full gasket kit from the UK will be here soon I hope, but, want to get everything planned first.
Who recommends what for logical modifications?

 

[ghce]

All the mods you mention sound good, the best mod for power I did on mine was the Weber 500 carb and Edelbrock inlet manifold, I dont think the Holley 390 gets as good press, if you are down this way it would be nice to do a compare between cars.

PS Roller rockers are meant to be good for 10? to 20? hp, also removal of the mechanical fan for an electric 10 Plus horse power.

Graeme

 

[dirtydoogle]

All the mods you mention sound good, the best mod for power I did on mine was the Weber 500 carb and Edelbrock inlet manifold, I dont think the Holley 390 gets as good press, if you are down this way it would be nice to do a compare between cars.

PS Roller rockers are meant to be good for 10? to 20? hp, also removal of the mechanical fan for an electric 10 Plus horse power.

Graeme

I'm trying to keep the wallet from having a heart attack, the holley works fairly good so I'll keep it there for the mean time. I see there is a few manifolds on trademe! Very tempting. Where would I get roller rockers from? A comparison would be fun, is yours the one on trademe?

 

[ghce]

Not selling anything on TM at the moment, The best place to get performance parts and to still retain ownership of the contents of your wallet is to buy directly from online retailers out of the USA using your plastic, I did some research on Roller Rockers about 2 months ago (I think I posted a few links on the forum) and found that you could get roller rocker sets for V8 engines from as little as US$129.00 similarly you can get the Weber and inlet manifold for about US$200.00 each, far cheaper than the NZ$1200.00 I was quoted for each from one NZ Edelbrock agent in CHCH.
The price differentials are so great that now even to buy simple gaskets I order online from the USA, my most recent purchase was a Pertronix II ignitor and flamethrower II coil, landed cost was about NZ$211.00.

Graeme

 

[dirtydoogle]

Not selling anything on TM at the moment, The best place to get performance parts and to still retain ownership of the contents of your wallet is to buy directly from online retailers out of the USA using your plastic, I did some research on Roller Rockers about 2 months ago (I think I posted a few links on the forum) and found that you could get roller rocker sets for V8 engines from as little as US$129.00 similarly you can get the Weber and inlet manifold for about US$200.00 each, far cheaper than the NZ$1200.00 I was quoted for each from one NZ Edelbrock agent in CHCH.
The price differentials are so great that now even to buy simple gaskets I order online from the USA, my most recent purchase was a Pertronix II ignitor and flamethrower II coil, landed cost was about NZ$211.00.

Graeme

Thanks, will get the EBAY fired up. I usually deal with PORPARTS in Palmerston North, but, to be honest they can't help too much with rovers. I've seen very cheap edelbrock manifolds advertised in the petrolhead mag. If it's that cheap for the weber and manifold I could buy both. Theres a gasket shop on the ebay.co.uk
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/THE-GASKET-SHOP
Very good prices if you ask me and world wide whipping.
That's a great price for the ignition, I think it's about that much for the electronic conversion here? Without a decent coil. I have a little bosch coil in mine.

 

[dirtydoogle]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motor ... 755603.htm

Could I retrofit my manifolds to this?

 

[SydneyRoverP6B]

Hello DD,

A point to remember is that with an automatic transmission, more top end power at the end of the day is not much use to you, unless you are running over 5000 rpm all the time.

The 3.9 in the advert,.... you can indeed fit your existing manifolds without an issue. The larger engines tend to peak in terms of power around the 4750 rpm mark.

With an automatic, low down torque is of far greater benefit than top end power, so porting the heads etc will move the torque band further up the rev range, so the engine ends up feeling sluggish at normal city driving speeds compared to running standard heads. Fuel consumption also increases as result.

Ron.

 

[dirtydoogle]

Hello DD,

A point to remember is that with an automatic transmission, more top end power at the end of the day is not much use to you, unless you are running over 5000 rpm all the time.

The 3.9 in the advert,.... you can indeed fit your existing manifolds without an issue. The larger engines tend to peak in terms of power around the 4750 rpm mark.

With an automatic, low down torque is of far greater benefit than top end power, so porting the heads etc will move the torque band further up the rev range, so the engine ends up feeling sluggish at normal city driving speeds compared to running standard heads. Fuel consumption also increases as result.

Ron.

So in theory I will be better off running the 3.9 motor in standard form with my carb etc instead of modifying the 3.5? I don't want to need a higher stall in mine. Does the 3.9 mate up to the BW65 box? What about mounts?

Off to google! Thanks guys, keep the info coming.

 

[SydneyRoverP6B]

dirtydoogle wrote,...

So in theory I will be better off running the 3.9 motor in standard form with my carb etc instead of modifying the 3.5? I don't want to need a higher stall in mine. Does the 3.9 mate up to the BW65 box? What about mounts?

Yes,..the bigger capacity with the subsequent increase in torque is of far greater value to you. My 4.6 would rip the doors of my 3.5 all through the massive increase in torque.

The standard stall speed of the torque converter needs no modification. The bigger engine will likely lift the stall speed higher, but you will not notice any difference in driving, apart from greater acceleration etc.

Rover 3.9 litre engines essentially fall into two categories,..those with camshaft driven oil pump and those with crankshaft driven oil pump. Do you know which category the engine you are looking at falls into?

There maybe a locating pin on the crankshaft where the flywheel fits, as such you will need to grind it off, but apart from that the BW65 will bolt straight onto the 3.9, no problems.

You will need to change sumps as LR/RR sumps are of a different design and will not fit within the P6B,..striking the crossmember. Engine mounts are not a problem,...all the mounting points are all in the same spots.

You will need to change timing covers and fit the P6 water pump.

Ron.

 

[dirtydoogle]

dirtydoogle wrote,...

So in theory I will be better off running the 3.9 motor in standard form with my carb etc instead of modifying the 3.5? I don't want to need a higher stall in mine. Does the 3.9 mate up to the BW65 box? What about mounts?

Yes,..the bigger capacity with the subsequent increase in torque is of far greater value to you. My 4.6 would rip the doors of my 3.5 all through the massive increase in torque.

The standard stall speed of the torque converter needs no modification. The bigger engine will likely lift the stall speed higher, but you will not notice any difference in driving, apart from greater acceleration etc.

Rover 3.9 litre engines essentially fall into two categories,..those with camshaft driven oil pump and those with crankshaft driven oil pump. Do you know which category the engine you are looking at falls into?

There maybe a locating pin on the crankshaft where the flywheel fits, as such you will need to grind it off, but apart from that the BW65 will bolt straight onto the 3.9, no problems.

You will need to change sumps as LR/RR sumps are of a different design and will not fit within the P6B,..striking the crossmember. Engine mounts are not a problem,...all the mounting points are all in the same spots.

You will need to change timing covers and fit the P6 water pump.

Ron.

I like the sound of this. I am not sure on the oil pump, what difference is this going to make to me?
I just found an old post of yours regarding water pump on the P6 being short nosed etc, so I will use my water pump and manifolds.
I'm assuming my sump will happily fit the 3.9? I like this idea far better than modifying my 3.5 because if I grab that 3.9 motor I can check the bearings and I will throw a full gasket set at it and have a perv down the bores. I imagine I can do this for under $100, which is too good to be true! It also helps that the engine is only 50km away from me.

 

[SydneyRoverP6B]

dirtydoogle wrote,...

I like the sound of this. I am not sure on the oil pump, what difference is this going to make to me?
I just found an old post of yours regarding water pump on the P6 being short nosed etc, so I will use my water pump and manifolds.
I'm assuming my sump will happily fit the 3.9? I like this idea far better than modifying my 3.5 because if I grab that 3.9 motor I can check the bearings and I will throw a full gasket set at it and have a perv down the bores. I imagine I can do this for under $100, which is too good to be true! It also helps that the engine is only 50km away from me.

Engines with the crankshaft driven oil pump have a long nose crankshaft, so you will need a spacer to go behind your P6B pulley/damper. No problem as such, just that you will need one.

Yes no problem with fitting the P6B sump,...all the holes are in the same spots. Rover (or rather Land Rover to be precise) never changed a thing in this regard. Same as the power steering bracket, all the castings are in the block to accept it, already threaded,..no problems at all.

You can use your distributor in the 3.9 too, although you might find a change to slightly stiffer advance springs will help. If so, swap them over between to two distributors.

With your manifold and carburettor on the 3.9, you will easily see in excess of 200HP and loads more low down torque to boot..

Just one thing....you will likely have to change the carb settings as the bigger engine will require more fuel, so as it currently stands the carb is likely to be too lean. Even so, with more torque, fuel consumption should be better than your 3.5 returns.

Ron.

 

[dirtydoogle]

dirtydoogle wrote,...

I like the sound of this. I am not sure on the oil pump, what difference is this going to make to me?
I just found an old post of yours regarding water pump on the P6 being short nosed etc, so I will use my water pump and manifolds.
I'm assuming my sump will happily fit the 3.9? I like this idea far better than modifying my 3.5 because if I grab that 3.9 motor I can check the bearings and I will throw a full gasket set at it and have a perv down the bores. I imagine I can do this for under $100, which is too good to be true! It also helps that the engine is only 50km away from me.

Engines with the crankshaft driven oil pump have a long nose crankshaft, so you will need a spacer to go behind your P6B pulley/damper. No problem as such, just that you will need one.

Yes no problem with fitting the P6B sump,...all the holes are in the same spots. Rover (or rather Land Rover to be precise) never changed a thing in this regard. Same as the power steering bracket, all the castings are in the block to accept it, already threaded,..no problems at all.

You can use your distributor in the 3.9 too, although you might find a change to slightly stiffer advance springs will help. If so, swap them over between to two distributors.

With your manifold and carburettor on the 3.9, you will easily see in excess of 200HP and loads more low down torque to boot..

Just one thing....you will likely have to change the carb settings as the bigger engine will require more fuel, so as it currently stands the carb is likely to be too lean. Even so, with more torque, fuel consumption should be better than your 3.5 returns.

Ron.

This is too good to be true, was only looking for a nice happy 200hp at most! So I gather I will need to use my bottom pulley too? Which makes sense I think, I'm certain the last belt I did on a Rangie was a ribbed belt....
Changing the settings is a walk in the park I have found with the holley =) Brilliant wee things they are. I'll throw my dizzy in there and see what happens.
All I need to do now is wait for my laptop to sell [why do I buy junk I never use? Brought a bl**dy boat a month ago because it was cheap]
Not too fussed about fuel consumption, if I was I would be back on a bike

 

[SydneyRoverP6B]

dirtydoogle wrote,...

This is too good to be true, was only looking for a nice happy 200hp at most! So I gather I will need to use my bottom pulley too?

Yes,..you will need to fit your P6B pulley/damper onto the 3.9 crankshaft.

Just one word of warning,..the 3.9 engines can and do crack behind the liners, just as the 4.0 and 4.6 litre engines can and do. With an engine that is not running, a quick look into the bores will tell the story. Nice clean piston...a definite problem.

To rectify, top hat liners have to be fitted, and that is an expense!! Once done though, it is a permanent fix, so you will never have a problem in that regard ever again.

Ron.

 

[dirtydoogle]

dirtydoogle wrote,...

This is too good to be true, was only looking for a nice happy 200hp at most! So I gather I will need to use my bottom pulley too?

Yes,..you will need to fit your P6B pulley/damper onto the 3.9 crankshaft.

Just one word of warning,..the 3.9 engines can and do crack behind the liners, just as the 4.0 and 4.6 litre engines can and do. With an engine that is not running, a quick look into the bores will tell the story. Nice clean piston...a definite problem.

To rectify, top hat liners have to be fitted, and that is an expense!! Once done though, it is a permanent fix, so you will never have a problem in that regard ever again.

Ron.

Sounds scary, any way of avoiding this? Or is it like an old Holden 186 and it's stupid timing gears? Thanks for the warning. Would it be worth the risk of buying the engine before having the heads off? Or will I see enough with a torch down the plug hole....

 

[SydneyRoverP6B]

dirtydoogle wrote,...

Sounds scary, any way of avoiding this? Or is it like an old Holden 186 and it's stupid timing gears? Thanks for the warning. Would it be worth the risk of buying the engine before having the heads off? Or will I see enough with a torch down the plug hole....

Depends on the price. If it is dirt cheap, you don't really lose much if it turns out to be a dud, and you really need the heads off to be sure.

If you could find a 3.9 for sale that already has top hats fitted, then that really would be the way to go... :wink:

Ron.

 

[dirtydoogle]

dirtydoogle wrote,...

Sounds scary, any way of avoiding this? Or is it like an old Holden 186 and it's stupid timing gears? Thanks for the warning. Would it be worth the risk of buying the engine before having the heads off? Or will I see enough with a torch down the plug hole....

Depends on the price. If it is dirt cheap, you don't really lose much if it turns out to be a dud, and you really need the heads off to be sure.

If you could find a 3.9 for sale that already has top hats fitted, then that really would be the way to go... :wink:

Ron.

It is dirt cheap for a 3.9, so I think it's worth the risk :twisted:
I don't mind pulling it down before buying parts etc in case it is shagged because I am technically not allowed behind the wheel untill November so I have plenty of time to play with the beastly wee thing.
I can't find many 3.9s.....without a 4X4 stuck to them, so at $600 it could be a bargain!

 

[TokyoP6B]

Selling the EFI + loom, injection manifold, exhaust manifolds, and aircon. compressor off my ( TradeMe, $700 ) 3.9 ex-Disco motor, paid for the whole thing and that effectively gave me a "free" 3.9 Block + heads; the seven hundred bucks I got for the complete, running P6B V-8 ( now in a boat! ) that got pulled and replaced didn't hurt either...

Use an SD-1 intake manifold, way more efficient than the P6B, if you are keeping the SU carbs on a 3.9
If you are going to pull this down, get the block crossbolted; makes the bottom end bullet-proof; any machine shop can do that. The 3.9 cranks don't have oversize main bearings, so if the crank is ovalled out or worn on the mains it will need replacing

Can't lose at $600 ( ! ) Hint: if you sell your old P6B motor, leave it running in the car so potential customers can drive it; you will get way more serious $$ than if its just sitting on its sump. Still much loved by Kiwi boaties ( ! )

GW

 

[dirtydoogle]

Selling the EFI + loom, injection manifold, exhaust manifolds, and aircon. compressor off my ( TradeMe, $700 ) 3.9 ex-Disco motor, paid for the whole thing and that effectively gave me a "free" 3.9 Block + heads; the seven hundred bucks I got for the complete, running P6B V-8 ( now in a boat! ) that got pulled and replaced didn't hurt either...

Use an SD-1 intake manifold, way more efficient than the P6B, if you are keeping the SU carbs on a 3.9
If you are going to pull this down, get the block crossbolted; makes the bottom end bullet-proof; any machine shop can do that. The 3.9 cranks don't have oversize main bearings, so if the crank is ovalled out or worn on the mains it will need replacing

Can't lose at $600 ( ! ) Hint: if you sell your old P6B motor, leave it running in the car so potential customers can drive it; you will get way more serious $$ than if its just sitting on its sump. Still much loved by Kiwi boaties ( ! )

GW

I would never have SUs near the 3.9, I have a 390 Holley on the 3500 so that would be going on the 3.9 with a nice shiny manifold. I may sell my boat for some extra funds to do this, infact I just got told a chapwith a Mitsi GTO TT may be interested in the boat and want a trade. :twisted:

 

[ghce]

[/quote]
I would never have SUs near the 3.9, I have a 390 Holley on the 3500 so that would be going on the 3.9 with a nice shiny manifold. I may sell my boat for some extra funds to do this, infact I just got told a chapwith a Mitsi GTO TT may be interested in the boat and want a trade. :twisted:[/quote]

You mean he would trade his GTO TT for your boat?? you might want to do a bit of research before you head down that track. Currently Good GTO TT''s dont get the money they deserve and there are a lot of GTO that have been severely caned and are time bombs just waiting to empty your wallet and mortgage you future income. As you can see in my signature I have one of these potentially fantastic cars, I drove quite a few before I found this one, most were dogs, looked cosmetticaly fine but had performance issues or just "wern't quite right". They are a hugely underated car and truely deserve the Super Car name that they have but only the TT's, the standard cars are just that, a standard car with little than a pretty looking body with non of the high tech suspension, steering and drive systems that the TT has.

Graeme

 

[dirtydoogle]

I would never have SUs near the 3.9, I have a 390 Holley on the 3500 so that would be going on the 3.9 with a nice shiny manifold. I may sell my boat for some extra funds to do this, infact I just got told a chapwith a Mitsi GTO TT may be interested in the boat and want a trade. :twisted:[/quote]

You mean he would trade his GTO TT for your boat?? you might want to do a bit of research before you head down that track. Currently Good GTO TT''s dont get the money they deserve and there are a lot of GTO that have been severely caned and are time bombs just waiting to empty your wallet and mortgage you future income. As you can see in my signature I have one of these potentially fantastic cars, I drove quite a few before I found this one, most were dogs, looked cosmetticaly fine but had performance issues or just "wern't quite right". They are a hugely underated car and truely deserve the Super Car name that they have but only the TT's, the standard cars are just that, a standard car with little than a pretty looking body with non of the high tech suspension, steering and drive systems that the TT has.

Graeme[/quote]
I'm aware of the wonderful reputation the GTO have, I've had to work on a few also. Not the most fun car to work on, but, they drive fairly well [not as entertaining in the twisties as the BMW I just sold, but a decent amount of grunt] as you say. I'll be looking at the car very very carefully before I decide on a deal. The boat didn't exactly cost me much [$850] and I only have to re-reg the tailor and then it'll be on trademe anyway for between 3-4k