Autobox problems after long sleep..

T

trickyhicky270

New Member
I have just recommisioned a 2000 automatic that has been stood since 2001, It passed its MOT this morning and I have done about 50 miles in it mostly round the lanes but I did run it up to 60Mph at one point on an A road. The gearbox doesnt seem to want to change up to third gear even at 60. I have only had manual P6's in the past but I have used fords with autoboxes which I seem to remember changed into 3rd at about 45mph. I have checked the oil level which is OK and it is nice and pink and doesnt smell burnt. Reverse and 1st select ok and it will kick down from 2nd to 1st. Car is a 1972 2000sc with 57000 miles on the clock. Are these boxes prone to problems after being idle for a long time? It has been rescued from the banger racers and looks like it could possibly have been towed by the front bumper at some time, would that kill the gearbox?
 
Hi auto boxes are funny things & they don't take kindly to standing round as they get condensation inside which can cause corrosion to the internals, also they dont generaly respond well to being towed at any great speed or for any great distance as the oil pump doesnt run & therefore the oil doesn't circulate, but having said that I have had similar symptoms to you very recently with my Volvo 240 & it was a partially siezed kickdown cable which was not returning fully when the throttle was backed off which was holding the box in the lower gears. Have a look at where the cable joins the throttle linkage on the near side just behind the engine & make sure there is no "spare" cable bunched up at the top, if there is then there's your trouble, I simply sprayed the one on the Volvo with WD40 & worked it with a pair of pliers which is probably only a temporary fix but as with the Rover it's not a pleasant job to change the cable with the box in situ I know from experience

Good luck
Colin
 
Can you get it to change into top gear at all? What speed does the box change from first to second a) on a light throttle and b) at full throttle.

If the fluid level is OK and the selector is correctly set, I'd agree with looking at the kickdown cable first.

It could also be the 2-3 shift valve sticking, or the governor not working properly.

It needs more information for a more informed diagnosis.
 
I will have a look at the kickdown cable, the accelerator was quite stiff first time I floored it so it could be tight/stuck. I dont have a manual for the car yet but I was told by one person to check the fluid level with the engine hot and running, if this is correct then the fluid level is OK. I have not had it change up into top gear at all so far but the first too second up/down changes seem ok and it selects first and reverse OK with no lag although it does clonk a bit. I did manage to find a BW35 manual for free download last night but it was late and I only had a very quick look through it.

Two other problems with it are the inhibitor switch wont work when it is hot so you have to wait 45 minutes before you can start the car with the key again and putting the selector in P doesnt lock up the gearbox.

I dont know any history of the car other than it came from Brighton to Lincolnshire via Ebay and has gone through two other owners locally neither of whom could get an MOT on it due to brakes not working on the back (internally collapsed hose!) it is amazingly solid but rather battered which I would imagine was down to some previous elderly owner who really didnt ought to be driving it! Reg is LMD 450K if anyone on here has come accross it please let me know...
 
One thing you can find with the BW35 boxes is the selector mechanism can get stiff without use!! if you look behind the eng at the box from the top,you will see a sliding joint that connects the rods from the g/lever to the box,this can get very stiff which will affect the selector positioning,re your difficulty in selecting park,and the inhibitor from working as it is position critical!!!!
Give it a really good saturation of WD40,and work the gearlever with the button down back and forth rapidly to loosen it all up!
I had this problem with the BW35 in mine as it had been stood for years,it took a good day of soaking in WD and operating the lever to loosen it up!!
The joint thats bolted to the box does 2 things,it acts a hinge for the 2 gear change rod operation,and as a sliding joint to take up movement from the eng/box twist, with the 3rd rod bolted to it and the fixed point under the tunnel.
Its not easy to get to,and its also best done when the engine is cold to avoid burning your arms on the exhaust,as I did !!!
It only take this to be a little out of position for it to affect the gear selection and cause problems.
Good luck,keep us informed how its going!!
Dave
 
If PARK is not working, and you have inhibitor problems it sounds as though the selector adjustment is out. You could be selecting "2" when you think you're selecting "D". Are you getting a 1-2 shift at all, or are you pulling away in "2"?
Until the selector is set you can't really check the level properly anyway. Lubricate the compensator and check the linkage setting, check the kickdown cable, then once those are correct, set the fluid level.
 
Just had a look at kickdown cable, split pin has been out and put back in but not "split" and the nut was only on a couple of threads but rusted solid so I am now assuming that someone has been tinkering in the past without success. There is also quite a bit of play in the accelerator linkage and the rubber bush has had it so I will have to sort that out next.

Is a reluctant top gear a common problem on the BW35? I seem to remember my dad having a V8 in the eighties that sometimes wouldnt change into top unless you lifted of the throttle a few times.
 
Another thought I've just had is to disconnect the kickdown & see if it jumps straight up into top after only a few yards my 2000 was like that when I bought it because the cable was snapped, although if the cable is stuck in the kick down/hold down position this still wont help. Was just a thought

Regards Colin
 
Just changed the worn out rubber bush for a nylon one and checked the kickdown cable which was way to tight, also did a stall test on the gearbox and its as it should be at 1800 RPM. Took it up the road and 1st to 2nd is much smoother still have no 3rd gear though. Tried starting off in 1 then shifting to 2 at 30mph, works ok. shift from 2 to D at 50mph, nothing happens. Floor it at 50mph then lift off, Nothing.............

Think I might be dropping the sump off the box at the weekend :shock:
 
trickyhicky270 said:
Think I might be dropping the sump off the box at the weekend :shock:
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I warn you now, there is a lot of oil in them things. When I rebuilt me engine and so split the auto box off it, the box seemed to leak oil for weeks, even after popping its sump off!
 
Will a BW35 out of another car, ie Triumph 2000, Volvo, A60 etc fit in the P6 or are there different gear ratios etc ? Going to Kings lynn pre 70 bangers on Saturday and hopeing I might find someone willing to part with something as most banger racers rip out the engines and boxes and put Ford pinto engines and manual boxes in to race old stuff now.
 
trickyhicky270 said:
Will a BW35 out of another car, ie Triumph 2000, Volvo, A60 etc fit in the P6 or are there different gear ratios etc ?
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Short answer, Yes, with an "if", long answer, No, with a "but".

No other BW35 from another car will go straight in, but by using a combination of the right parts all can be made to fit. All of which is a lot harder than fixing the kickdown cable, setting the linkage and the fluid level, and then seeing what the fault really is.
Why would a secondhand box be a better option than fixing the one you've got?
 
trickyhicky270 said:
also did a stall test on the gearbox and its as it should be at 1800 RPM.
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I assume you did the stall test in "D"? If so that won't tell you a thing if you have first and second, you need to do the test in "Reverse". Personally I'd advise not doing them at all unless you really have to, as they'll kill the box if it's got problems already and you're not very careful.
 
I did the stall test because the car seemed to need a lot of revs to climb the hill out of my driveway in D but a lot less when I reverse out. As for finding a spare gearbox, I dont want to swap it unless I have too but if I have one handy and my gearbox turns out to be damaged internally at least I wont be stuck with an immobile car for weeks while I wait for one to turn up on Ebay.

Does anyone stock spare parts for these gearboxes anymore? I have done some searching on google but have only found complete recon boxes. Rimmer Bros sell gasket sets but thats all.
 
I have been under the car this morning and sure enough the linkage was out of adjustment and not quite engaging PARK, I have shortened the rod that connects to the selector on the box by one full turn which seems to have cured the inhibitor switch problem and it now locks up the gearbox in "P". Kickdown cable looks ok with about a 1/16 clearance. I did notice a fairly substantial dent in the oil pan in the middle at the front while I was under there in fact its not far off being punctured so it looks like it will definately have to come off now to be straitened and the gouge in it brazed up.
 
trickyhicky270 said:
Does anyone stock spare parts for these gearboxes anymore?
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Soft parts (clutches bands seals and gaskets) are all available new without problems, hard parts (geartrains clutch drums etc) would be prohibitively expensive even if available, but I can supply pretty much everything secondhand all of which will be cleaned and inspected. I've got most things to update boxes to the latest specs as well.
 
I spent best part of a day under it on Saturday, removed governer stripped and cleaned it but it appeared to be Ok. Removed sump and valve body, stripped and checked valve body but again everything seemed to be operating as it should. There was some grey residue stuck to the bottom of the sump and also traces in the oil ways but not enough to block anything, in fact the only things that really gave me any cause for concern where the little magnet which had attached itself to the front servo apply and release tubes and the rear clutch tube almost fell out when I removed the sump. I did wonder If the magnet being attached to the oil tubes could have caused them to block up as there was quiet a lot of oily iron powder attached to the magnet itself.

Ran out of time and daylight on Saturday but managed to get it back together this afternoon and filled with oil but its worse than ever now! it seems to rev a lot more when pulling away in D, is reluctant to change into 2nd and I still have no 3rd at all. Its also left a trail of ATF along the road (I strained the old oil and put it back in as a tempory measure so it shouldnt have been over full) :?

I straitened the sump while it was off as it had been hit hard enough by something sharp to almost pierce it and did wonder if that could have been enough to dislodge the rear clutch tube?
 
IIRC due to the design, regardless of whether the pipes are nearly falling out when you remove the sump, they can't fall out in use because the sump pan is in the way.

If you want to sort this you are going to have to take a more systematic approach.
 
I havnt quite given up on it yet! had the sump off again today and it seems I was a bit careless on Monday when I put it back together and crushed the end of the biggest oil pipe between the valve body and the gearbox so the oil pump would probably have been sucking air in. Managed too straiten it by putting a bar through it and carefully tapping it back into shape. Put everything back together again and we now have gears again and it isnt blowing all of its oil out BUT we still have no top gear!

I also found another possible problem while I was under there, the kickdown cable isnt letting the cam in the gearbox fully return so I think I will cut the crimped stop off it next and see if I can get hold of a pressure guage and see If setting it up that way gives any improvement.
 
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