An even Redder Red Rover

redrover

redrover

Well-Known Member
I have a terrible habit of getting carried away, you know.

Three years ago, I stripped the thread in a spark plug hole. So rebuilt the entire engine. Well the head was coming off anyway! You don't want to get that far and not finish the job, do you? :roll:

Last weekend, I welded in a small repair section at the leading edge of the nearside sill, and decided it really isn't all that much effort to swap panels over after all.
So I've made contact with a super-trooper-uber modern paint booth in Crosby and am going to get the scuttle panel done for a sample of their work.
If he's good, I'll start collecting the panels I need and respray them all gradually over the course of the year as DamianZ28 did with his stunning V8 project.

First question then... 2 pack or celly?

I'll be bare-metalling the panels so there are no worries about paint reaction, etc. What I do want is a durable modern paint job, and ideally very low maintenance. I'm frequently seen in the outside lane, and 17 hours rubbing my fingerprints off with Super Resin polish every weekend isn't really my bag. I want something that will stand up to all the grime a December motorway can throw at it, and be quite happy sitting behind a gritter lorry, then come up a nice glossy treat with nothing more than a pressure washer aimed loosely in its direction once in a while.

To my mind, that suggests 2 pack with a couple of coats of lacquer, but would appreciate hearing from the experiences of others. As it's staying red, I'm concerned about fading. Are there certain combinations of primer/colour/lacquer that work better? Is polyurethane lacquer better? What's the finish like? Advantages/disadvantages of each paint system?

Any advice greatly appreciated! :D

Michael

PS: Will post up some pictures of what it looks like now as 'before shots'. The picture in my signature below isn't really a true reflection. I have a knack of being able to catch it in the right light with a quality camera and it looks pretty good. Anybody who saw it on the stand at the NEC will confirm that it's cosmetically seriously below par. Certainly not a patch on what it looks like under the bonnet or inside - those pictures are a true reflection. The 1980s Ford red 2 pack paint is on top of original Cameron green. Original paint wasn't rubbed down properly, so where it hasn't chipped off, it's reacted and gone pink. Rubbing it with a chamois is like dragging a tack cloth across emery paper!
 
2 pack is harder wearing - so if you use it in winter and keep it outside it makes perfect sense...
 
unstable load said:
2 Pack for me. Specially if done in a booth with lights to cure it.
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Heard the finish can sometimes be a bit orange-peeley with 2K though. Or is that down to the painter? And can you reliably lacquer it? I really don't want it to fade and waxing it isn't likely to be something I'm going to do every weekend.
 
redrover said:
unstable load said:
2 Pack for me. Specially if done in a booth with lights to cure it.
Click to expand...

Heard the finish can sometimes be a bit orange-peeley with 2K though. Or is that down to the painter? And can you reliably lacquer it? I really don't want it to fade and waxing it isn't likely to be something I'm going to do every weekend.
Click to expand...

Yes it depends on the person spraying it. When I had Lady C's back end repaired it was painted in 2 pack in a booth. The results were excellent with a really deep shine and no orange peel. You don't have to wax every weekend btw. a touch up with a QD spray every other weekend retains the protection :)

Dave
 
redrover said:
unstable load said:
2 Pack for me. Specially if done in a booth with lights to cure it.
Click to expand...

Heard the finish can sometimes be a bit orange-peeley with 2K though. Or is that down to the painter? And can you reliably lacquer it? I really don't want it to fade and waxing it isn't likely to be something I'm going to do every weekend.
Click to expand...

Definitely go for base with clear coat over the top rather than solid colour - it's easier to repair and scratches can be polished out. Modern paint is more UV resistant and shouldn't fade either.

I think the orange peel effect is how it dried, but should be flatted back and polished to a deep shine and smooth finish afterwards.
 
Thanks all.
Just spoken to the painters now. They've got a full car booth and oven to cure it. They also said they'd be happy to do a few panels at a time over the course of a few weeks, which is encouraging. They owner had his Stag done last year in 2K after bare-metalling and he's very happy with it. All work is 100% guaranteed. Apparently the painter is really top notch, so I'm going in to speak to him later in the week and have a look at the Stag.

testrider said:
Definitely go for base with clear coat over the top rather than solid colour - it's easier to repair and scratches can be polished out. Modern paint is more UV resistant and shouldn't fade either.
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Thanks Paul. I'll speak to him about this too. Strange, I would have though solid would be easier to repair, but can understand how scratches are easier to polish out. I take it this would give more of a deeper 'wet look' than solid as well?

Michael
 
With base and clear coat you can do localised repairs, say a scrape or large stone chip, by applying a small amount of the base coat the damaged area but then clear coat the whole panel so you can't see any edge to the repaired section.

Are you going to strip the paint off or is the paint shop?
 
testrider said:
With base and clear coat you can do localised repairs, say a scrape or large stone chip, by applying a small amount of the base coat the damaged area but then clear coat the whole panel so you can't see any edge to the repaired section.

Are you going to strip the paint off or is the paint shop?
Click to expand...

Ah, I understand you know. Yes, can see the real benefit in that.

Was planning to strip the panels myself so I could thoroughly inspect them to knock out / fill any mild dints. A mix of nitro-mors and those paint removal carbide discs is the plan.... Not a sensible idea?

Found this article online, which seems to outline the process in the 'Typical Paint Job' section. Only concern for me is who and how would do the metal conditioning. Will speak to painter to see what he thinks.
According to this article, it would seem like 4 base and 3+ clear would offer a strong, deep finish. Sound about right? Has anybody done this?

Also found this simple write-up on 2K vs Cellulose for anyone who's interested.

Michael
 
Michael, what i can only add to the advice of the others, is to avoid painting a few panels at a time. You run the risk of not having consistent results.
You'd better prepare all of them whenever you can, and once all of them are ready, have them painted in one go. I am sure that in this way it will turn out cheaper too.
 
redrover said:
A mix of nitro-mors and those paint removal carbide discs is the plan.... Not a sensible idea?
Click to expand...

I got told off by the painter that did HOT for using those disc as the surface wasn't smooth enough to paint straight on to. They work great on the floor pan though.

Stick with paint stripper if you can.

If the painter is happy for you to do a few panels at a time, but you plan to do that whole car then buy enough paint to do it all straight away that way there won't (shouldn't?) be a problem matching it up a couple of months down the line. I've got a few dreggs in the bottom of a 5litre can left over from painting EMF - it has a painted roof though.
 
Demetris said:
Michael, what i can only add to the advice of the others, is to avoid painting a few panels at a time. You run the risk of not having consistent results.
You'd better prepare all of them whenever you can, and once all of them are ready, have them painted in one go. I am sure that in this way it will turn out cheaper too.
Click to expand...
testrider said:
If the painter is happy for you to do a few panels at a time, but you plan to do that whole car then buy enough paint to do it all straight away that way there won't (shouldn't?) be a problem matching it up a couple of months down the line. I've got a few dreggs in the bottom of a 5litre can left over from painting EMF - it has a painted roof though.
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This was one issue that did come to mind, so I asked the sprayers if the paint would keep if I ordered a full 5 litre can for them to use up gradually as I supplied the panels. They said that would be fine and would prefer that method as matching it up later might be inconsistent (as Demetris rightly says), but to come in and discuss it with the Painter anyway. The only remark he did make was to ask if 5 litres was enough. Apparently his Stag took 7, but that might be with a roof and engine bay, etc. Something else to discuss.. No harm in over ordering really.

edit: I've done a quick google search to see if there's a particularly short shelf life to opened cans of 2K. The paint suppliers say 6-9 months (depending on the speed of the catalyst), but common experience from painters suggests it will last over 12 months provided the lid is tight and it's kept in a cool place. Would like to have the whole project done in 3 months or so anyway, so that's ideal.

michael
 
I can imagine that the engine bay, inside the boot, removable hardtop and door shuts would take up a lot of paint.

testrider said:
I've got a few dreggs in the bottom of a 5litre can left over from painting EMF
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This is assuming that there wasn't another 5 litre can used up first of course, but I don't remember Clive mentioning it at the time.
 
testrider said:
This is assuming that there wasn't another 5 litre can used up first of course, but I don't remember Clive mentioning it at the time.
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5 litre does stick in mind as a figure I've heard a few times before. Will have a quick search on here. Can anybody who's resprayed theirs confirm?
 
The temperature and humidity on the day does alter the paint finish slightly. I have sprayed a few helicopters and we normally do the loose panels in the paint shop and the airframe in the hangar, but with some of the (normally darker) colours, it's best to fit the panels and do the whole shooting match in one.
You are best advised to go basecoat/clearcoat for the ease of repairs, but you need to know that between each coat of paint, the car needs to cure and be flatted down and prepped all over again before shooting the next coat on, for each layer you want. This will add to the cost of the job as it is almost a full respray each time over.

As much as the Greens will have you use water based paints, I have not seen a really durable one yet and I would go with the solvent based stuff while you still can.
If they say you need 5 litres, get 6 and put the remains in a SEALED, unused tin for touch ups, but it doesn't last forever before it goes off. The guy that mixes it for you will have the "recipe", ask him for it and you will be very close to the original for later on, fading aside, but if he knows his stuff, he will be able to compensate for the sun and weather.
 
Two pack, definitely. My P5B really does need another respray now. Admittedly, it was over twenty years ago that we resprayed her in Cellulose but the paint has been going home for a few years now & being Bordeaux, has been getting those annoyingly familiar white sun-spots appear. In truth, she does need a fair bit of TLC to bring her back to a tip-top (though far from concours) condition. Nothing too major but a few things here & there topped off with a repaint, which will be 2-pack.
 
The other issue with doing random panels is fit and alignment. You really need to fit all the main panels to your base unit to make sure they line up before the final paint goes on. You can't guarantee that 40-50 year old panels will sit where they're supposed to and you don't want to discover this when you fit painted panels for the first time.
 
KiwiRover said:
The other issue with doing random panels is fit and alignment. You really need to fit all the main panels to your base unit to make sure they line up before the final paint goes on. You can't guarantee that 40-50 year old panels will sit where they're supposed to and you don't want to discover this when you fit painted panels for the first time.
Click to expand...

I'll definitely be doing this before getting anything sprayed. I need to replace the four wings, rear decker, boot and valance panels with decent examples. The doors are staying, but driver's side needs aligning better than it is. I want to do as much of this prep work as I can myself, which is one of the reasons why I don't want to give it to the sprayers to do themselves. The other reason is their labour costs for removal, stripping and refitting.

Thanks John (unstableload) that's quite useful information. I'm going to go in and speak to the painter properly. From chatting on the phone, it sounds like they have a fair idea of what they're talking about. I don't want a concours paint job, I want a quality, durable and low-maintenance finish. So I want to get a feel for that before deciding how to attack the project.

Thanks all. Really appreciate the feedback :D

Still need to decide the shade of red, so still plenty to determine!
 
redrover said:
Still need to decide the shade of red, so still plenty to determine!
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And on that note.... nobody would happen to have the paint codes for the P6 reds would they? Brigade, Venetian and (less so) Monza are the ones I'm interested in. Ta
 
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