who's patent?

#1
Greetings all,

My name is Forbes; I'm new here. I have never owned a Rover, but, back when the earth was still cooling, I worked for an authorized Rover service garage here in Ontario,, so drove many P6's.

I am retired now from umpteen years of writing technical books and articles, but retain a keen interest in suspension technology. If my aging memory serves, the telescoping/swiveling deDion tube used on these cars was invented by - and a patent held by - one of the engineers who migrated to Rover from Rolls Royce during the development of gas turbines for road vehicles. But I cannot remember the name!

Can anyone help, here? Thanks in advance,

Forbes
 
#12
Thanks to all for your collective efforts. Alas, I was insufficiently precise in my original query. I do not doubt that CharlesTrepardoux was, in fact, the inventor of the deDion axle principle, back in the 19th century. The scheme was quite popular in 30's and 50's race cars, and has also seen use in some road cars. The reduction in unsprung weight improves wheel control over bumps, while the axle ensures they remain parallel throughout.

'Conventional' deDion axles, however, usually require some accommodation for the fact that, as the axle rises and falls over irregularities in the road surface, the drive shafts that make the wheels go around have to change their length somewhat. This has usually been achieved by providing each 'half-axle' with sliding splines. However, with much torque applied, and/or inadequate lubrication, these splined connections tend to 'lock-up' and refuse to change length, with nasty consequences.

The ingenious break-through by Rover was to eliminate the sliding splines, and allow the deDion axle tube to change length instead. It is the inventor of that specific detail that I seek. I first found the answer somewhere in John Mortimer's book "Automotive Gas Turbines." Since that 'aha!' moment, I have twice re-read he book (a rather nasty print-to-order effort!), but in vain... so far. I'll struggle on for a third attempt, but hoped someone, somewhere would save the effort.

Forbes
 
#13
I was reading Graham Robson's book (1977), The Rover Story, yesterday, which makes reference to the DeDion tube and the work to develop sliding joint and it reminded me of this thread.

It doesn't specify who designed it but the names mentioned in progressing the DeDion are: Spen King and Peter Wilks, having both used DeDion in their earlier sports special, other engineers involved in suspension were Gordon Bashford, Robert Boyle. Bashford and King had also worked on DeDion on the gas turbine T3 and T4.

The P6 book indicates that Bashford was the engineer who worked on the DeDion rear suspension.

Doesn't answer the question but does it ring any bells?
 

Gargo

Active Member
#16
There's that name again. I've done a few rallies, which Ian was also competing in; Irish Reto, LeJog. I think they were my Pre-Rover days. Since obtainning and competing with the Rover, I keep get told wonderfull stories about Ian Glass. Everyone speaks warmly of him. He sounds like a true motoring enthusiast; Chapeau, Ian.

Spen King and Peter Wilks, having both used DeDion in their earlier sports special,
Is Ian's car of his making, or it one of the orginal Rover toys?
Do you know more of the history of the car in the photos.
 
#17
The De Dion Suspension system came out of one of the industry’s first manufacturers, De Dion Bouton, although it wasn’t Count De Dion or Monsieur Bouton who invented the suspension but the Count’s brother-in-law Charles Trepardeaux who worked for them for a while.

Trepardeaux designed a way to keep the wheels on the ground when the vehicle was travelling. He originally designed it for steam tricycles and it was then redesigned for car use.

The suspension removes the differential from the suspension by bolting it to the body and then a tube connects both sides of the vehicle. This is a laterally telescopic tube that absorbs a bump. This means that there are no camber changes on rebound, which in turn means that the wheels are always aligned thus improving traction.
 
#19
Thanks to all for your collective efforts. Alas, I was insufficiently precise in my original query. I do not doubt that CharlesTrepardoux was, in fact, the inventor of the deDion axle principle, back in the 19th century. The scheme was quite popular in 30's and 50's race cars, and has also seen use in some road cars. The reduction in unsprung weight improves wheel control over bumps, while the axle ensures they remain parallel throughout.

'Conventional' deDion axles, however, usually require some accommodation for the fact that, as the axle rises and falls over irregularities in the road surface, the drive shafts that make the wheels go around have to change their length somewhat. This has usually been achieved by providing each 'half-axle' with sliding splines. However, with much torque applied, and/or inadequate lubrication, these splined connections tend to 'lock-up' and refuse to change length, with nasty consequences.

The ingenious break-through by Rover was to eliminate the sliding splines, and allow the deDion axle tube to change length instead. It is the inventor of that specific detail that I seek. I first found the answer somewhere in John Mortimer's book "Automotive Gas Turbines." Since that 'aha!' moment, I have twice re-read he book (a rather nasty print-to-order effort!), but in vain... so far. I'll struggle on for a third attempt, but hoped someone, somewhere would save the effort.

Forbes
Gordon Bashford name comes up as designing the front suspension
 
#20
Bashford joined the Rover Company, at the age of 14, as an apprentice in 1930. He went on to be instrumental in the design of Rover's revolutionary Land Rover off-road vehicle which was launched at the Amsterdam Motor Show in 1948.[1]

After the Land Rover, Bashford was involved in the development of a series of David Bache styled Rover cars, including the P4, as chief designer of chassis and body for the P6 and as designer of the SD1 which won European Car of the Year in 1977.[1]

Bashford also played a key role, along with Spen King, in the development of the 1970 Range Rover.[1]

Bashford retired in 1981
 
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