Rover (Alvis!) P6BS recreation...

G

grifterkid

Member
This is not so much a 'members project' more a 'members thought'... But has any hardworking, highly skilled and thoroughly determined person out there ever considered having a go at making a recreation of the ill-fated (thanks Lyons...!) Rover/Alvis P6BS...?! It is something I would love to do as I think it could, and proably would, be tremendous if done right... Is it just the fact that it would be too difficult to make everything from scratch that has put people off...?! If only this superb motor car was made things could have been so very different...!!!
ALVIS.jpg


ALVIS2.jpg
 
I can't say I've thought about re-making one of these, let alone any other car, but building a car from scratch isn't a problem, it's getting it to look 'right'. Something like the Alvis, looking at the shape of it, could be built from a lightweight steel spaceframe, and adapting the p6 running gear (or whatever donor parts are used) where necessary could easily get it driving. The body looks like it could be fibreglass, so some sort of fibreglass mould could be made to build the body (I know nothing about the Alvis except that the twin SU's stuck out of a pod behind the driver), then what I'd see the hardest bit would be the top of the cabin, as to what donor windows would fit and look right, and how to attach them.

A while ago, a tv show on discovery channel, Chop Shop, recreated the Rover JET 1 car for Jools Holland, using an xj6 chassis and running gear, with a modified p4 body on top, so recreations are far from nothing new.

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When broken down into how it could be done, and the simple shape of the Alvis, it looks like a really good project :D

Simon
 
I've thought about this but compared to many members of this site, my expertise in these matters is somewhat lacking...
In my view, it's the proposed final shape on the left below that was worth replicating:

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Credit to the ARonline website.
 
I know a little, but not a lot, about the original car. It certainly used a P6 base unit including bulkhead and front screen. As far as I can see the length was determined by how far forward you could bring the area of the base unit with the diff nose pick up and trailing arm pickups. The section between here and the front bulkhead was then cut out to shorten the car. I have a strong suspicion the doors are also reskinned P6 front doors, and the window frames only lightly modified. My recollection is that the rear screen is flat glass, so that shouldn't be a problem to cut to shape along with the side glasses. The most difficult bit of panelwork looks to be the roof. As far as I can see the front and sides of the P6 perimeter frame have been used. The roof panel is then joggled up to lay over the top of the side cantrails with the main panel lying within the frame perimeter. The effect is a little like a Pagoda Mercedes.

The engine lies in the area previously occupied by the P6 fuel tank. One thing I wouldn't replicate is the chain drive to the nose of the gearbox. This was what caused the offset of the engine from the car centre line. As I understand it, the gearbox is a normal 2000 item butted hard up to the nose of the diff. The implication is that there is a jackshaft running forward from the engine alongside the box, terminating in a chain drive case near the drivers ankles to turn the drive back to the box. A neat arrangement for a DIY prototype but there are so many transaxles sitting in scrapyards nowadays it doesn't seem worth the effort for a repro. Obvoius donor would be a member of the MR2 family or an Audi fwd turned back to front. It should be pretty easy to combine this with the P6 de dion as demonstrated by Simon Owen and his Jag diff. Only downside is that the engine would be slightly further forward than the original and you would lose the third seat. Weight distribution and therefore handling and in particular braking ought to be commensurately improved though.

Personally I prefer the styling of the prototype. Although the P9 sketch is stunning for its day, in my opinion the boxy prototype has aged better. Unsurprisingly I have the same view of MR2's!

What I can't recall is what front suspension it used. I'm sure P9 would have used P10 double wishbones as developed on the P7 prototypes. I have a sneaky recollection that this car used P6 over the top springs though. This would have determined the bonnet line; and incidentally further illustrates what could be done with the front of a P6!

Chris
 
The body was a straightforward monocoque built for Rover by Abbey panels apparently so the P6 base unit was not used. The front suspension was a double wishbone setup with coil over shocks acting off the lower arms (to keep the bonnet line down) and it had rack and pinion steering mounted high on the bulkhead but lots of P6 donor parts were used like rear suspension, motor, gearbox, diff, dashboard and switches etc. See pics from a Classic and Sportscar article...
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Looking at the cross-section kiwirover posted above, the engine sits longitudinally over the rear axle line, so to keep the profile of the Alvis, that's where it really needs to go. The only car that springs to my mind with this set-up is the Metro 6R4, which utilized the v6 variant of the Rover v8 mounted high up in the back, with gearbox facing towards the front, but had a transfer box drop down to give the drive below the engine to the axles. The other option is to mount the engine tranverse, and fit an Austin Princess gearbox, just like in the Mini but in the back. This is a known modification for getting v8's into Mini's.

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Those gearboxes are getting rare now, but look like they'd fit right and do the job. I don't think the diff on the Princess gearbox would be man enough to take cornering loads like the p6 diff does so the de dion tube and inboard brakes may need to be omitted.

Simon
 
Maybe Abbey Panels did the mod work, but that still looks like major chunks of P6 base unit to me! That front suspension looks like straight P10 as prototyped on the P7's, so can be assumed to bolt straight up to the P6 firewall. And that dash almost certainly came out of a 2000S!

The problem of loads through the diff with a princess box could be solved by using an Alfa fixed de dion and sliding driveshaft set up. Just transfer the panhard rod onto the tube! Come to think of it the complete Alfa 75 rear end with integral gearbox might come in handy....

Chris
 
Here's some pic's of the updated P6BS, the P9 and my word it looks stunning... Someone has to make a replica of this superb car...!!!

ALVIS3.jpg


ALVIS4.jpg


ALVIS5.jpg


If that had been made when intended Rover would've been un-stoppable... Could you imagine walking into a Rover/Alvis dealership now...? Thanks British Leyland...!!!
 
The Rovering Member said:
That would sell now. Well, I'd buy one anyway. 8)
Click to expand...

Amen to the above...!!! I'll also take this oportunity to credit ARonline ( http://www.aronline.co.uk/ ) for 'lending' me the above pictures I've used... It truly is a superbly put together site with all the info you could ever wish for (I never knew John Lennon owned one of the first Austin Maxi's and wrote it off but I certainly do now!)...
 
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