A while ago I found a site where pinion and rack steering on a P6 was discussed, but now I lost track of the forum. PAS would be convenient as I am retired and would appreciate the easier steering. I have searched this forum thoroughly without luck, and hope that someone here has some experience or knowledge in this matter. Living in Denmark the car has LHD, and I wonder if it is possible to replace the tracking rod with a proper rack connected to an idler unit at each end, affter obtaining an RHD idler arm unit from the UK?
P6 Pinion and rack PAS
- Thread starter PerNelson
- Start date
colnerov
Well-Known Member
Or you could fit a PAS steering box, The pump may be easy or involved depending on whether it's 4 cylinder or V8. Electric pump is also possible. Indeed, electric assisted steering column is another avenue. How are the Danish authorities on modifications to vehicles in regard to type approval?
The car is a V8, and actually I have a PAS system more or less complete - however without various brackets for the pump, and condition unknown. And then I expect the rack and pinion to give a more precise steering, which is why I consider this. How the authorities react to this I do not know at present. But the register does not mention whether there is PAS or manual steering, so I believe that it would be accepted, as long as it looks original. However I am not sure about the electric steering, which would be known to be out of spec for such an old car.
mikecoombs
Active Member
There is a relatively recent series of posts on installing various sorts of PAS on here somewhere. I think someone was working on an electric system fitted under the dash. Rack and pinion will create more headaches than it solves. Primarily trying to find somewhere to bolt the rack without it flexing. The length of the arms are also critical and there is the matter of turning the motion through ninety degrees as the rover links move along the car not across the car like a standard system.
The standard PAS box is a very good unit and the variable ratio is reversed from the non-PAS box so you get more feel than other PAS stystems of the time. Note that the p5b and p6b pumps look very similar but they turn in opposite directions. there is enough space above(ish) where the pump goes to fit a GM (vauxhall/opel?) Astra electric pump. I have one to put in at some time...and given all the other stuff on the car and the pump's height with tank that place seems like the best option. Probably need to upgrade the alternator though...
The standard PAS box is a very good unit and the variable ratio is reversed from the non-PAS box so you get more feel than other PAS stystems of the time. Note that the p5b and p6b pumps look very similar but they turn in opposite directions. there is enough space above(ish) where the pump goes to fit a GM (vauxhall/opel?) Astra electric pump. I have one to put in at some time...and given all the other stuff on the car and the pump's height with tank that place seems like the best option. Probably need to upgrade the alternator though...
colnerov
Well-Known Member
I can see that he intends to use two idler arms so the rack will go across by the bulkhead. He needs a rack from a car that has it mounted in front of the front axle line. However the rack input shaft will be close to the idler arm pivot point meaning the rack will have to be offset towards the centre of the car meaning a modified column. But having said that, a Vauxhall/Opel Cavalier/Astra rack has the track rods attached in the centre of the rack, alleviating the rack offset conundrum. The only other hiccup is that rack is bulkhead mounted so he needs one from a RHD car flipped over for a LHD fitting.
Can you tell I've been through all of this thought process before, albeit in part on another vehicle?
So in short stick to standard parts unless you want a design challenge.
Colin
Thank you for your inputs although not the most encouraging with regards to rack steering, but no need to go to a lot of trouble when the result is uncertain. Think I will stick to the "standard" Rover PAS, but with an electric hydraulic unit, where I hear Opel as well as Citroen Saxo mentioned. And I understand that an upgrade of the alternator is necessary - due to an increased electric power consumption I guess?
The electric option is tricky for space in a V8, it's mostly used in 4 cyl conversions which have more room. I looked at this and will probably keep the mechanical pump - but I'm sure with a bit of creativity it can be done, but hey-ho. Ultimately Colin will likely be doing the work, I'll give him both pumps (I have a Saxo/106 one complete with the original circular bracket and part of the wiring loom - it's nice to keep the original connectors) and see what he can do. The original bracketry is utterly absurd and very heavy
I'm sure if there were a viable rack and pinion conversion using (mostly) off the shelf parts, they'd be plenty of takers - I believe a popular P5 mod involves a Volvo Steering box which is much nicer and more durable than the vague P5 PAS (the P6 setup is supposedly much better than that in the P5).
I always repeat this, so sorry if it's boring to those subjected to my opinion before - one thing you definitely, really want is a faster geared solution. It's one of the things that makes the P6 feel "old school". And if you have assistance, having light steering but still with lots of wheel twirling would feel odd or at least detached - which is why I'm not very keen on the "ee-zee steer" type options. Others like them and as a backstop for classics where they simply is no PAS option they are nice to have. But with a car like the P6, there are better options from the factory.
For reference, the steering lock to lock is just under 4 in the 4 cyl, 4.5 in the V8 and 3.25 for PAS - so the PAS setup is much better from this perspective. If you look at the replacement, the SD1 is 2.75 turns which is where most regular cars are these days with sportier models lower still. So an ideal rack and pinion system would shift this down to this sort of range - under 3 turns anyway.
Tor
Well-Known Member
I have a retro-fitted original PAS setup in my LHD V8 and, having owned three manual-steering V8s previously, I can say it's a huge difference. I love a quick-rack steering setup (such as the Active Steering on my BMW), and the Rover sort-of has that. It also has just enough assist to feel connected. But none of it would amount to much if I didn't also ensure my suspension bushings, alignment, shocks and tyres were all good. Which they have been. Had to replace the steering box and idler, so alignment is needed. (Just realised it's been a year since I touched the car, which is giving me a guilt pang).
TreeVee
Member
Hej Per,
I sourced a DCE Microsteer system for my P6 3500 LHD (Sweden) which I had to do the installation bits for. I made a report which you can find on the dealers website https://vb-pim-bucket.s3.eu-north-1...uals/ea2ed8cf-ccaf-42d0-8517-b6d5ae7762dd.pdf
Apart from the high ratio as discussed in the thread, it works fine.
P-G
I sourced a DCE Microsteer system for my P6 3500 LHD (Sweden) which I had to do the installation bits for. I made a report which you can find on the dealers website https://vb-pim-bucket.s3.eu-north-1...uals/ea2ed8cf-ccaf-42d0-8517-b6d5ae7762dd.pdf
Apart from the high ratio as discussed in the thread, it works fine.
P-G
TreeVee
Member
There is a swedish version too:
Hi TreeVee,
Thank you for info and instructions for the Microsteer system, which I have saved, and need to investigate and will consider - should the original Rover PAS, which I already have aquired should be troublesome. Unfortunately I do not have the time for the work at present, but will bring news, when the work is done.