OUCH (& ouch again)!
- Thread starter Phil Robson
- Start date
Phil Robson
Well-Known Member
No settlement yet, but I have a revised letter of offer - which is the offer I started with on 4th January! :roll:
Before agreeing, I have contacted the assessors, who have contacted their engineer, who.....hasn't yet got back to me... :roll: I'm trying at least to get the category reduced to a 'D'. If I can't, I'll settle for the offer as it stands. I would accept less of a payout if I could have the car unrecorded / lesser category, but I suppose at the end of the day the car will be fine & I'll be compensated for its reduction in value, so in money terms it's OK. 8)
Before agreeing, I have contacted the assessors, who have contacted their engineer, who.....hasn't yet got back to me... :roll: I'm trying at least to get the category reduced to a 'D'. If I can't, I'll settle for the offer as it stands. I would accept less of a payout if I could have the car unrecorded / lesser category, but I suppose at the end of the day the car will be fine & I'll be compensated for its reduction in value, so in money terms it's OK. 8)
Hi Phil
How are things going? Have you had the showdown yet?
I was talking to Tony Bunting this afternoon who is somewhat spooked by your experience with your insuruers. As a result he has been looking at Footman-James conditions in some detail. I'm with them as well so I was very interested as well.
The highlights of the discussion are that there are some interesting conditions in the small print:
# (page 10 - Loss or Damage) "The most we will pay will be either: The market value of your vehicle (including its accessories and spare parts) immediately before the loss, up to the value shown in the schedule; or the cost of repairing the vehicle. Whichever is less."
# (page 10 - Loss or Damage) "We will not pay the cost of any repair or replacement which improves your vehicle or accessories to a better condition than before they were in before the loss or damage. If this happens, you must pay a contribution towards the cost of the repair or replacement. This contribution would be on top of any excess you have to pay."
# (Page 11 - Write Off [Total Loss]) "If your vehicle is considered to be a write off (that is, cost of repairs is greater than the market valueof the vehicle) we will offer you an amount as compensation. ......................... The vehicle then becomes our property."
# (Page 14 - Exceptions to Section 2) "Any amount above the last known list price of any part or accessory which is no longer available."
The most important point is that the Agreed Value has no meaning in reality - it simply acts as a cap for them to work down from!!!!!
If they do decide to repair it they are going to be free to charge you for anything that improves it eg "We've fitted a new bumper, your old one needed chroming anyway, so you can pay for that."
There's no provision for you to buy the write off back - that always used to be in all the policies I had.
Do you fancy arguing when they charge you the difference between 2010 price and 1970 price for something they've renewed?
I shall be writing to Footman James!!! And I'll post the corres here once it's underway.
Luckily my insurance isn't up until May!
Chris
How are things going? Have you had the showdown yet?
I was talking to Tony Bunting this afternoon who is somewhat spooked by your experience with your insuruers. As a result he has been looking at Footman-James conditions in some detail. I'm with them as well so I was very interested as well.
The highlights of the discussion are that there are some interesting conditions in the small print:
# (page 10 - Loss or Damage) "The most we will pay will be either: The market value of your vehicle (including its accessories and spare parts) immediately before the loss, up to the value shown in the schedule; or the cost of repairing the vehicle. Whichever is less."
# (page 10 - Loss or Damage) "We will not pay the cost of any repair or replacement which improves your vehicle or accessories to a better condition than before they were in before the loss or damage. If this happens, you must pay a contribution towards the cost of the repair or replacement. This contribution would be on top of any excess you have to pay."
# (Page 11 - Write Off [Total Loss]) "If your vehicle is considered to be a write off (that is, cost of repairs is greater than the market valueof the vehicle) we will offer you an amount as compensation. ......................... The vehicle then becomes our property."
# (Page 14 - Exceptions to Section 2) "Any amount above the last known list price of any part or accessory which is no longer available."
The most important point is that the Agreed Value has no meaning in reality - it simply acts as a cap for them to work down from!!!!!
If they do decide to repair it they are going to be free to charge you for anything that improves it eg "We've fitted a new bumper, your old one needed chroming anyway, so you can pay for that."
There's no provision for you to buy the write off back - that always used to be in all the policies I had.
Do you fancy arguing when they charge you the difference between 2010 price and 1970 price for something they've renewed?
I shall be writing to Footman James!!! And I'll post the corres here once it's underway.
Luckily my insurance isn't up until May!
Chris
Chris
That's changed A LOT since I had Classic Policies with Footman James.
Who's the Underwriter now for their Classic Stuff?
I now have a Trade Policy with them.
My Classic Policies ALL had a salvage option in them,
I went Trade Policy about 7 years ago due to too many vehicles...
...It was Footman James' sugestion I used a trade policy as I sell, buy and occasionaly repair/renovate.
Good Luck Phil looks like you are not out of the woods yet,
Your misfortune has opened a lot of people's eyes as to how they are exactly covered.
I suspect a lot of people are checking policies carefully....
That's changed A LOT since I had Classic Policies with Footman James.
Who's the Underwriter now for their Classic Stuff?
I now have a Trade Policy with them.
My Classic Policies ALL had a salvage option in them,
I went Trade Policy about 7 years ago due to too many vehicles...
...It was Footman James' sugestion I used a trade policy as I sell, buy and occasionaly repair/renovate.
Good Luck Phil looks like you are not out of the woods yet,
Your misfortune has opened a lot of people's eyes as to how they are exactly covered.
I suspect a lot of people are checking policies carefully....
Phil Robson
Well-Known Member
That's interesting stuff, Chris - thanks for posting it.
I'm with brokers Richardson Hosken 'tho the insurer is 'Equity', & to be honest I haven't read my small print too deeply! However, I do have the offer now + the car to keep which I'm likely to settle for.
The stumbling block is the assessors (A.C.E. assessors) who's phone only appears to take incoming calls! :x When (IF!) the engineer gets back to me I'm attempting to reduce the category of write-off to no more than a D as I think it will be better for the pemium & car's value going forward.
When I last spoke to them I was told that the insurers had enquired how the repair costs were calculated. The assessor's report quantified them at £2275 :shock: ; I'd only got them at full price to £1520 & I gave the engineer a copy when he saw the car. I was also told that the prices are based on a 'comparable car' (in this case a 4 door saloon :? ). The car's value on the certificate is £2,000 which was my guess when I insured it in the first place, although this is not an agreed value. From what you say Chris, that wouldn't make any difference, although it probably doesn't help my write-off scenario.
I'm with brokers Richardson Hosken 'tho the insurer is 'Equity', & to be honest I haven't read my small print too deeply! However, I do have the offer now + the car to keep which I'm likely to settle for.
The stumbling block is the assessors (A.C.E. assessors) who's phone only appears to take incoming calls! :x When (IF!) the engineer gets back to me I'm attempting to reduce the category of write-off to no more than a D as I think it will be better for the pemium & car's value going forward.
When I last spoke to them I was told that the insurers had enquired how the repair costs were calculated. The assessor's report quantified them at £2275 :shock: ; I'd only got them at full price to £1520 & I gave the engineer a copy when he saw the car. I was also told that the prices are based on a 'comparable car' (in this case a 4 door saloon :? ). The car's value on the certificate is £2,000 which was my guess when I insured it in the first place, although this is not an agreed value. From what you say Chris, that wouldn't make any difference, although it probably doesn't help my write-off scenario.
TwinPlenum3500S
New Member
Strip it, repair it and use it. If it doesnt need a VIC check, the log book wont be stamped up .... the damage is only superficial ... just view it as a spring clean! That is assuming you can keep the salvage. If you intend to keep the car, then it doesnt matter it has had a bit of damage. I feel for you.... it is essentially bureaucracy.
TwinPlenum3500S
New Member
Is that a fact Dave, or simply something that you have heard .. if so, makes an interesting precedent.
Phil Robson
Well-Known Member
Nothing finalised yet, Pete. Still waiting for A.C.E. Assessors to come back to me :evil: Needless to say, they haven't been in touch at all. I'll phone them again today.
In the meantime, I've made good progress on the repairs. The back end is now straightened & the boot closes properly again. Unfortunately my 'best' spare rear bumper wasn't as good as I'd remembered & has a hole in it
so I'll have to rechrome one of my others. I have a decent(ish) front one to go on & have been given a good rear valance which was the only part I didn't have.
Incidentally, the n/s/r bumper iron took most of the impact:
...which probably saved the car from more serious damage.
In the meantime, I've made good progress on the repairs. The back end is now straightened & the boot closes properly again. Unfortunately my 'best' spare rear bumper wasn't as good as I'd remembered & has a hole in it
so I'll have to rechrome one of my others. I have a decent(ish) front one to go on & have been given a good rear valance which was the only part I didn't have.Incidentally, the n/s/r bumper iron took most of the impact:
...which probably saved the car from more serious damage.
Attachments
Phil Robson
Well-Known Member
DaveHerns said:
By using a scissor jack braced in the boot well &...with a sledgehammer! :shock: Sounds worse than it was - I had to move the nsr boot corner back by about a 1/2 inch & I was very careful. It may still be a fraction out, but the boot closes nicely again & there is no damage further in, so when it is repanelled, it will be pretty good again.
DaveHerns said:
No it isn't. The assessors are playing silly beggars at the moment as I've mentioned, but the insurers' communications have not exactly been world class. I tried phoning the assessors again yesterday afternoon, but I suspect they'd all gone home. it was 4.30pm after all. :roll:
Phil Robson
Well-Known Member
....still no resolution :evil:
I spoke again regarding the 'write-off' with the assessors (not the actual assessor, who doesn't seem to have any way of communication) & they advised me to speak to the insurers! I did this & said I had almost completed the repairs & that I disagreed with the decision. Incidentally, these supposed specialist classic insurers are using a modern large 4-door saloon for calculating repair costs. That'll be realistic then!
They weren't too interested in looking into the matter until I said I'd be prepared to accept significantly less IF the car was not recorded as a write off, then they said it actually might be possible after all :roll: & could I put everything in writing.....
.....which I did on 2nd March, & sent it recorded delivery.
...... do you think I have received a response yet? :wink:
I spoke again regarding the 'write-off' with the assessors (not the actual assessor, who doesn't seem to have any way of communication) & they advised me to speak to the insurers! I did this & said I had almost completed the repairs & that I disagreed with the decision. Incidentally, these supposed specialist classic insurers are using a modern large 4-door saloon for calculating repair costs. That'll be realistic then!
They weren't too interested in looking into the matter until I said I'd be prepared to accept significantly less IF the car was not recorded as a write off, then they said it actually might be possible after all :roll: & could I put everything in writing.....
.....which I did on 2nd March, & sent it recorded delivery
....... do you think I have received a response yet? :wink:
grifterkid
Member
It seems that, as with anything, when people want to take your dough they're as nice as pie but when it comes to dishing it out quite the opposite appears to be the case... :x I really do hope that this gets sorted out amicably for you and, as some of the other folks on here have said, mention the ombudsman to them to get them to buck their ideas up...
Phil Robson
Well-Known Member
Phil Robson said:.....which I did on 2nd March, & sent it recorded delivery
...... do you think I have received a response yet? :wink:
Not yet Pete. :evil:
Same position as before, other than I've nearly finished the repairs, although I'm doing one or two more things whilst it's in bits (as you do
). I'll have to give them yet another ring. Only 3 months 10 days now...Can't tax the car now at the month end because it's got a marker on its record requiring a VIC check (identity verification by VOSA ) - which of course makes a mockery of the whole situation - it's had so little work done on it that Category C is nonsensical! It might as well have had a VIC before it got bumped! Still, what with terrorists about etc, you can't be too careful - any excuse for a good nosey from some government quango. :roll:
webmaster
New Member
The VIC should be no big deal, assuming the repairs are ok and all the numbers match the log book they should pass it through. I know of a few 800's that have been written off for very light damage and required a VIC, all sorted without too much trouble and retained original number plates etc.
Of course this means it will be recorded as a write off, I have no idea if the VIC requirement and write off details can be removed from the records.
Of course this means it will be recorded as a write off, I have no idea if the VIC requirement and write off details can be removed from the records.