NZ 3500 P6B: the Project continues...

T

TokyoP6B

Active Member
Rov4.jpg

Rov3.jpg

Rov5.jpg


**Apologies for cr*p quality of the pictures; cell-phone in a poorly lit workshop

My '72 P6B: Nelson assembled, snuggled up against a Ford LTD of similar vintage, both gathering dust

The original engine + trans. have been pulled out + sold; the motor on the bench is shortly getting dropped in with a Toyota W58 5-speed +heavy duty clutch +pressure plate, the pedal-box conversion has been done

Engine started out as a LandRover Discovery 3.9 block which has been crossbolted +bored and stroked to 5.0 litres using a Leyland P76 crank+ smallblock Chev. connecting rods + forged pistons; a "street" 272 degree cam with lift increased to 0.439" + YellaTerra roller rockers. The assembly has been balanced
Cylinder heads are SD-1 Vitesse, ARP fasteners have been used throughout + will have a Mallory magnetic breakerless distributor with vacuum advance

This is a tried-and-true Kiwi jet-boat + dirt-track ( Stock Car ) racers recipe for increasing Rover V8 displacement, makes for a torque monster but not an engine that needs to rev. ( ! )

Using the original intake manifold + SU carbs ( which will be rejetted ) just to get her running; I have considered using Megasquirt injection but I'm more familiar with carbs...

That's it for now... swap will happen 1st or 2nd week of April

GW
 
Having gone to all that expense I am sure a nice low pressure turbo would not look out of place in your engine bay.

Graeme
 
Thanks Graeme! Hope things have returned to normal in ChCh after your 'quake; we are just getting over power outages + empty supermarket shelves in Tokyo after our latest effort managed to tilt the Earths axis :shock:

I have a vintage NOS Offenhauser inlet manifold that takes 2 x Rochester 2BBLs that I was thinking of using; but a 'phone call to John Harcourt in ChCh last year scored me a very reasonably priced ( Used ) set of his intake manifolds that take 4 x 48IDF Webers, these apparently saw service on a Formula 5000 car "back in the day"

The Harcourt manifold has a low profile + will apparently fit a Rover V8 even under an MGC's bonnet; so that's "Keeping it Kiwi" + likely the direction I will take. I've had Webers on my old Fiat 2300 + 1500 Crusader+ most impressed with them, they're pretty much set-and-forget ( tho' the "set" part is a PITA! )

GW

Pics:
Harcourt Weber manifold from D + D (USA): ( http://www.aluminumv8.com )
3.9 into an MGB: ( http://www.berlin-classics.de/design1.html )

Weber-5.jpg

Sebring-M.jpg

Sebring-O.jpg
 
Yes second that with regard to the use in Fiats, great carbs to use!! had many friends with 124's and the 2300 also. Would like to see the finished Harcourt equipped car.

Graeme
 
What can I say? I Approve! I especially approve the gearbox solution. Probabaly a good idea to run in on SU's - much easier to get right than the Webbers, you really don't want to be messing around with jets on a brand new engine. The underbonnet is going to look simply glorious once the Webbers are on though :D

I shall be really intrigued to see what you do to the rest of the car to match all that go, not to mention show!

Chris
 
THX Chris,
choice of gearbox pat-on-the-back much appreciated; unfortunately the Aisin Seiki factory who make the 5-Speed for Toyota has closed indefinitely because of the tsunami, so not sure about the ongoing spares situation

I shall be really intrigued to see what you do to the rest of the car to match all that go, not to mention show!
Click to expand...

So far a Moto-Lita steering wheel + set of 17" aftermarket alloys are the only parts you would immediately notice as having been changed; underneath there is a set of ( Aussie ) "King" springs which are about 30% uprated from stock + drop the car a fraction; ClasseParts "GAZ" adjustable shocks front + rear + the ClasseParts uprated front anti-sway bar ( Thankyou, Alan! )

I've learned from my mistakes with earlier projects + tried to keep the Rover complete, running + licenced; and it has remained so right up until the garage was commissioned to doing the swap. Leaving the old 3500V8 + Auto. trans. running in the car made it a helluva lot easier to sell than if it had just been sitting on its sump on a concrete floor as well ( ! )

The car itself is a pretty clean example, I'm not sure how "mad" I will go upgrading from here but I would guess an uprated radiator and/or oil cooler is in my future and perhaps a Simon Owen Jag diff. ( THX Simon! )

GW+
 
Nice to see you've posted a couple of reference pics of my mate Axel of Classic Wheels Berlin's 2005 MG B GT V8 Sebring build, which ran four Empi downdraughts (Weber clones, a bit cheaper) on a 3.9 motor and produced 300bhp. I've been in that car, and it really packed a punch. It has since been de-tuned with a four barrel and a new bonnet without the holes for the carb trumpets.
I'll be following your build with great interest. Looking forward to further photos. Hope the guys who are doing the transplant for you can get hold af a decent digital camera before the work is carried out, you really want a photographic record of the transformation that isn't snapped on a mobile phone!
I have to admit to being more than just a little bit envious. That motor will certainly make your P6B fly! Those roller rockers look the biz. Shame all that good stuff isn't visible when it is installed, eh?
 
Thanks Mr. Task,
I've upgraded the MG-B link to the Classic Wheels.de site ( one of yours? )
Like the one you've done for Ferrari 8) ... That MG-B looks quite "the business" ( !! )
I'm just as envious of your project car, which will turn out amazing + think we have been at the mercy of the same factors, when there's enough time, there's not been enough money; when the money comes in then been too busy to mess with the car... "make hay while the sun shines" as they say

April will mark the 3rd year since me buying my P6B; two major holdups have been: locating an affordable 3.9 engine in NZ ( you'd think they'd be everywhere, given how many vehicles are Rover powered ) + then the 9 months the engineering shop took to machine+ assemble the engine; if I catalogued all their excuses + broken promises it would make a novel ( ! ) Then me vacillating over going back to NZ to do the swap, when 2 lots of plans were scuttled I finally caved in + got a workshop to quote rather than leaving everything sitting + rusting

Hope the guys who are doing the transplant for you can get hold of a decent digital camera before the work is carried out, you really want a photographic record of the transformation that isn't snapped on a mobile phone!
Click to expand...

Unfortunately this may be a good as it gets for now, if it wasn't for a friend having their arm twisted to drop by there would be *no* pictures, good or bad

GW
 
I've upgraded the MG-B link to the Classic Wheels.de site ( one of yours? )
Like the one you've done for Ferrari ... That MG-B looks quite "the business" ( !! )
Click to expand...
Nice of you to change the link. Thanks. Yeah, the Classic Wheels site is my work, badly in need of an update actually, if not a complete re-design...
I don't quite get your Ferrari remark? I've never done any web design for them, although a few years ago I did work on a glossy magazine for German owners of Ferrari sportscars, although the project never got beyond the initial 'mock-up' or 'dummy' stage. A great shame actually that the Berlin Ferrari dealership who initiated the project didn't launch the title in the end, it was nice having really high quality photographic material with which to do pretty page layouts.
Sorry, didn't mean to hijack this thread.
Have you had any further work done on the Vitesse heads? What wheels and tires will you be running when the engine swap is completed?
 
Have you had any further work done on the Vitesse heads? What wheels and tires will you be running when the engine swap is completed?
Click to expand...

The Vitesse heads have been treated to a recondition + a basic porting/polishing, nothing too extreme, not done by me, but by a machine-shop that specializes in race car preparation As far as I can tell, they've done a good job

The Wheels are an "unknown brand" of Japanese domestic model aftermarket type I picked up second hand, + already on my car, let me post the link here:

http://www.classicroverforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7377&p=50265&hilit=JIS#p50265

The Tires are near-new + came with the Wheels; I don't recall the make, sorry.If I had to guess I'd say they're Yokohamas...
The 3500S in the picture is not mine. The Wheels don't seem to photograph that well + actually look much nicer on the car :wink: the bright chrome look has been toned down with a less glossy respray, you might just make out from the picture of the line of wheels drying in the sun the new finish, the inner rims are still mirror chrome but the tires hide that...

I must have my wires crossed with "Ferrari", apologies ( ! )

GW
 
Gosh! 225/50 X 17 turns out to be pretty well spot on diameter against oe tyres. Have to say I don't really approve of an aspect ratio as low as 50 on the P6 - there's too much camber change at the front to really cope with a profile that low. But then you can try it out and perhaps up the tyre diameter later. The speedo is going to need a recalibration later anyway, to cope with the Toyota box.

That box would be an automatic choice in the UK if it wasn't for the fact that there are hardly any available. That's why we all tend to fit the LT77/R380. But if you've read recent posts carefully you'll know it can have an awful change quality and is also less than robust in certain respects.

Chris
 
Have to say I don't really approve of an aspect ratio as low as 50 on the P6 - there's too much camber change at the front to really cope with a profile that low. But then you can try it out and perhaps up the tyre diameter later
Click to expand...

Thanks Chris; there's absolutely no clearance at the back to go up one tire size; I'll see how it goes + the car may very well end up with "taller tires" on the front than on the back + one size of "get me home" spare in the trunk I think if the tires were the same tread pattern + the same manufacturer, just a different profile on the same rims, I wouldn't be getting into too deep trouble... ( tho' I won't be rotating tires! ) At least it's fairly easy to drop the front suspension if the ride height needs altering too; I'm sure this would be legal here as one of our company pickup trucks had wide+low 14" tires on the back + tall narrow 16"s on the front, right out of the factory
Food for thought + something I'll look into; certainly wouldn't hesitate to do this compared to some of the compromises+ liberties I've taken with my cars in the past ( ! ) What profile would you recommend going up to ( ? ) 225/65/17 seems to be the tallest tire available here before they become exclusively heavy duty 4WD/Truck types

best
GW
 
Try it first!! The theory goes that if you have a stiff low profile tyre and then effectively roll it relative to the road, then it is going to offload its inner edge and hence lose grip. At what profile that effect becomes noticeable isn't yet proven! I'd imagine you'd find more and more understeer as you increased the cornering G. With a correctly set up P6 you ought to get totally neutral handling. A countermeasure (although only very partial) would be to wind the front dampers up as far as you could tolerate, to at least limit turn in lurch.

Don't be frightened by rear tyre clearance issues - if it gets to be a serious discussion point we have the technology here to sort it out without changing the car's external appearance.

Chris
 
Regarding the tyre size causing possible understeer issues, could the front suspension bulkhead pivots be shimmed to induce a bit of static negative camber to counteract the lower profile subject to thorough road testing? Personally, I wouldn't go any larger in rolling diameter than standard, due to potential clearance issues in the arches. I cannot go any taller than 225/50/15 on the rear of mine as it would catch on the remains of the d-post.

What are the rules on modifying bodyshells where you are, the last thing you want to do is fall foul of local legislation regarding what can or can't be modified?
 
Thanks Simon,
I've imported a few vehicles into Japan + know the ropes

What are the rules on modifying bodyshells where you are, the last thing you want to do is fall foul of local legislation regarding what can or can't be modified?
Click to expand...

Pretty convoluted, the car has to be Stock when first registered ( after importation ) tho' there are a very few exemptions allowed

As P6B's were imported + sold new here the DMV have kept records + know that these have 2 x 1 3/4" SU carbs for e.g. + the weight over the front wheels + weight over the back wheels is measured on a weighbridge + must be within a very small percentage of the manufacturers spec. The length/width/height is also measured + compared, the speedometer accuracy checked on a rolling road. The gearbox change from Auto. to a Toyota manual is allowed but I will have to make a declaration that the overall vehicles weight +weight distribution has changed + what the gear ratios of the new trans. are Similarly the car will have to have 14" steel wheels when going through its 1st check + I will have to declare a suspension drop ( King Springs )

Once the Rover's been through its 1st inspection + got a numberplate then the sky's the limit for modifications thereafter tho' re-inspection is required + the car goes into the DMV database as a "modified vehicle" ( kaizousha ) which affects insurance rates; here the vehicle is insured, not the driver Some Supra-pilots cheat by changing all the go-faster gear off their cars back to stock prior to an inspection, ( required every 2 years ) then swap it all back after the inspection

I can chop the roof off the car quite legally; but I can't have a Blower sticking out
of the hood if it affects visibility I can swap the engine out for anything that will fit, as long as I declare the mod. to the DMV Widening wheel arches or cutting inner arches out is all quite legal, as long as any change to the vehicles width, length or height is declared ( Basically it's self-certification, you make the changes then advise the DMV + when the car is inspected when it rolls through its next statutory inspection they pass or fail it, there are no "advisories" )

Really the only nail-biting part is the 1st registration, the MOT inspections are really tough ( ! )

GW
 
I'd imagine you'd find more and more understeer as you increased the cornering G. With a correctly set up P6 you ought to get totally neutral handling. A countermeasure (although only very partial) would be to wind the front dampers up as far as you could tolerate, to at least limit turn in lurch.

Don't be frightened by rear tyre clearance issues - if it gets to be a serious discussion point we have the technology here to sort it out without changing the car's external appearance.
Click to expand...

THX Chris; I've driven many 100's of thousands of Km in 1950's USA cars all of which required 3 weeks notice in writing to turn a corner + "excessive understeer" was what happened when I forgot to "steer with my right foot", a technique not unlike driving a Mini Cooper where you power the beast through every corner, albeit without any of the Minis finesse + together with a great deal less confidence ( ! )... Throw 1958 power steering into the mix for a total remote control mix of zero feedback through the steering wheel and no self-correction out of a turn whatsoever; well, you get used to it, + very quickly

Roads here are billiard table smooth so I will take your advice + wind up the shocks + see if the steering can be lived with; I'm not concerned with scrubbing out tires which are as cheap as chips here, or modifying my driving as I'll quickly find the cars limits + adjust accordingly; as having suspension + steering parts placed under stresses these weren't made for and wearing out prematurely We'll see, thanks again for your interest + kind advice( ! )

GW
 
How did you get an adaptor for the toyota gearbox to the Rover block? I assume you have to use the toyota starter motor as well?

the mind boggles at the downdraft weber manifold.... :)
 
How did you get an adaptor for the toyota gearbox to the Rover block?
Click to expand...

Nice thing about the Toyota box is the shifter tops are interchangeable between different applications, get the top that is 58cm between the flat of the gearbox face to the center of the shift lever ( plus converter bellhousing ) + no cutting is necessary, the shift lever is then in the "right" place in a P6B

89011198_full.jpg


Ewokracing, I see you're in OZ ( Noosa Heads, of course! Blue Mountains away, and his 3 sisters... 8) )

Well, the complete conversion kit is available from Sydney Australia, Dellow Automotive, here's the best article I've found online

http://www.britishv8.org/Articles/Toyota-5spd-Tranny.htm

I actually got a better price for the Dellow kit in NZ; but I won't recommend this supplier as they were paid for parts that ( despite numerous phone calls + emails ) were never supplied + had to be sourced elsewhere A case of: "now we've got your money you can get lost" :roll: Dellow, on the other hand, were a pleasure to deal with :D :D :D and the quality of their Kit is superb

http://www.dellowconversions.com.au/about.html

D + D in the States have just come out with a range of adaptors too;

http://www.aluminumv8.com/

To fit Muncie, Saginaw, T-10, T-50 + others, behind a Rover V8

I've bought lots of Parts from D+ D + great to deal with but with one caveat, you have to 'phone for ordering; they don't reply to emails *ever*

My Starter might be a tricky one as the motor uses a P-76 Leyland crank +flywheel ( hens teeth, only about 2500 manual P-76 V-8's were ever made ) so while the Rover starter should work there may be some juggling with P-76 starter pinions, or ( heaven forbid ) I may have to get a Rover ring-gear attached to the flywheel. I'm told that this is a non-issue, but as the engine is going in this week, we will soon see...

Rover-V8-to-Dellow-adaptor will use the Rover starter with no issues; a "manual" Rover flywheel + pressure plate will bolt onto your car if you are changing from an Automatic; a Toyota clutch plate is needed as the center matches the input spline, this and a clutch throwout lever, clutch release bearing + slave cylinder are all part of the Dellow kit, as is a speedo cable for your P6B fabbed to suit the Toyota box; tho' your speedo might require recalibrating. This really is a complete Kit, tho' you'll still have to: (1) make a bushing where the gearbox input shaft goes into the back of the crank ( or use the Toyota bearing: part number 90363-12002 ) +(2) make mounts for the transmission And (3) sort out a pedal box, ( I used 3500S ) as well as (4) have your driveshaft welded + balanced + (5) hook up your reversing light wiring to the Toyota switch. Handy to get the front yoke of the driveshaft with your Toyota box

There is a high-torque starter available for stroker V-8's too, but we'll cross that bridge when we come to it

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mode...tZVintageQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

Rover V8 with a clacky lifter in a kit car, Quad Dellortos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmmzNoVnkDw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=951G8y_AT9A&feature=related

Thanks for your interest + good luck with a 5-speed conversion ( ! )

GW :D
 
Hello GW,

It is great being able to source a lot of good stuff to bolt up behind the RV8, especially in Australia... :D Even the BW-35 transmission saw a lot more develpoment with Ford here in Australia, so the transmission that evolved over the years, right up until the early 1990s, was according to the transmission fellow who rebuilt mine last year,.." a substantially stronger and better box than the BW-35 was originally "

I too have heard good things about Dellow.

Ron.
 
Interesting, before I started reading this forum I'd heard nothing but bad things about Dellow... oh well!

I'm just curious as to what fits with what as one day (maybe once petrol has run out as it will probably take me that long), I'd like to build a manual two door p5b...

A friend of mine had a manual V8 P76. He said it was one of the best car's he has ever owned (he's had a lot!). It was his tow car and he even did a bit of circuit racing with it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top