Hello, I am in america and have no experience with rovers... but found a good looking 1966 2000 in my neighborhood. I'm going to check it out and was hoping you may have some tips on what to look for. Anything that i should pay close attention to, especially hard to find parts, rust prone spots, etc. It is very inexpensive, but i'm told it runs and drives, but does need brakes. If anyone has any advice, it would be appreciated. thanks alot, christian
New guy looking for advice/tips
- Thread starter cas
- Start date
Hi Christian
Welcome on here!
First off a '66 2000 in the US is very rare indeed and very interesting indeed. Irrespective of what condition its in. I'm pretty sure that was the first year of import. Car and Driver raved about them at the time, I think I still have their road test somewhere, but you ought to be able to find a copy of it if you google.
All P6's have brake issues! Nothing to prevent you stopping! But the rear brakes are amongst the very first rear disc brakes - they are inboard mounted around the diff - and they have a combination linkage within to allow operation of the handbrake and a self adjuster on the same pads. So it's complicated and it is also prone to seal leakage. You would expect to have to rebuild them whatever car you bought - even a brand new one if such a thing existed! So don't be put off by that, lots of experience and help here to help you through.
For the remaining mechanical parts there's nothing too extraordinary. The key win is that exceptionally comprehensive shop manuals are readily available. It is a complex car for what it is, but nothing that won't succumbe to a slow and steady approach. Parts availability is very good here, less so in the US. So expect to have to pay a few freight charges to bring stuff over. But most things of any weight are repairable with a decent engineering shop to hand (not necessarily yours!). Only thing I can think of to highlight would be the gearbox. The box is known to be rather weak on early cars (which this is) and whines, poor selection or jumping out of gear imply a rebuild. You may have to manufacture some parts depending on exactly which build spec it turns out to be. Hopefully the car will have been updated in its early life.
Then there's the rust. If you are fortunate enough to be looking at a car from one of the dry states, California, Arizona etc, then you've struck GOLD. All the rubber is available so don't be put off by anything perished. If it's from a northern state then it should have lots of rust! Don't be put off by what you can see. the construction is very unusual. The car is built up onto a "base unit". Pressed steel but the nearest equivalent would be a space frame. The car is driveable in this state and can have a full interior. Then the visible panels are added as "clothing" afterwards. So everything you can immediately see is bolt on and easily renewed with good availability. Even the roof! So ignore what it looks like. The action is on the base unit! Most of what perforates is easily dealt with - boot floor, floor pans etc. There are three key areas less easy to deal with. A car killer - and in my view pretty well the only one - is the front firewall. If you look under the front fender, you'll see there is a suspension arm which is pivoted from brackets bolted to the firewall. If the firewall is rusted through immediately around these brackets it could be very difficult as this is one of the key reference points for the geometry of the car. Next up are the sills. These are the principle strength of the car. It is possible to make a convertible without further strengthening these are so strong. But of course they are a box section in a vulnerable place so rust out. To verify you need to examine from inside the car. Take out the stainless steel trreadplates covering the sill immediately inside the doors (three screws each), and pull back the carpet from the top and inner sides of the sill so that you can see the top and side of the sill and the junction between sill and floorpan. The outer face is concealed by a screw on panel that carries two rubber bungs to cover the jacking points. You won't get that off at a casual inspection, but do have a poke from beneath. You will see where the cover panel finishes and the sill proper begins. Also ignore what state the cover panel is in - again it's just screw on. The good news is that the car is self supporting by the roof perimeter frame if the sill has gone - so there are no geometry issues - and repair panels are available. Final difficult area is the lower D posts. This is the area of frame revealed by opening the rear door - a sort of mudguard or fender shape. This area is double skinned and has an important junction with the rear of the sill. Again repair panels avialble but some quite tricky shapes to match up. A good search area is to pull up the bases of the rear seats and look under the insulation in the deep pocket against the sill and behind the crossmember that runs across the front of the seat bases. This all from inside the car.
Summary? A stylish and innovative design that wears its age astonishingly well. In its time a truly exceptional drive that is still tennable as a daily driver today. A '66 car is so rare that it can be forgiven a lot of effort to put it right.
Hope that helps!
Chris
Welcome on here!
First off a '66 2000 in the US is very rare indeed and very interesting indeed. Irrespective of what condition its in. I'm pretty sure that was the first year of import. Car and Driver raved about them at the time, I think I still have their road test somewhere, but you ought to be able to find a copy of it if you google.
All P6's have brake issues! Nothing to prevent you stopping! But the rear brakes are amongst the very first rear disc brakes - they are inboard mounted around the diff - and they have a combination linkage within to allow operation of the handbrake and a self adjuster on the same pads. So it's complicated and it is also prone to seal leakage. You would expect to have to rebuild them whatever car you bought - even a brand new one if such a thing existed! So don't be put off by that, lots of experience and help here to help you through.
For the remaining mechanical parts there's nothing too extraordinary. The key win is that exceptionally comprehensive shop manuals are readily available. It is a complex car for what it is, but nothing that won't succumbe to a slow and steady approach. Parts availability is very good here, less so in the US. So expect to have to pay a few freight charges to bring stuff over. But most things of any weight are repairable with a decent engineering shop to hand (not necessarily yours!). Only thing I can think of to highlight would be the gearbox. The box is known to be rather weak on early cars (which this is) and whines, poor selection or jumping out of gear imply a rebuild. You may have to manufacture some parts depending on exactly which build spec it turns out to be. Hopefully the car will have been updated in its early life.
Then there's the rust. If you are fortunate enough to be looking at a car from one of the dry states, California, Arizona etc, then you've struck GOLD. All the rubber is available so don't be put off by anything perished. If it's from a northern state then it should have lots of rust! Don't be put off by what you can see. the construction is very unusual. The car is built up onto a "base unit". Pressed steel but the nearest equivalent would be a space frame. The car is driveable in this state and can have a full interior. Then the visible panels are added as "clothing" afterwards. So everything you can immediately see is bolt on and easily renewed with good availability. Even the roof! So ignore what it looks like. The action is on the base unit! Most of what perforates is easily dealt with - boot floor, floor pans etc. There are three key areas less easy to deal with. A car killer - and in my view pretty well the only one - is the front firewall. If you look under the front fender, you'll see there is a suspension arm which is pivoted from brackets bolted to the firewall. If the firewall is rusted through immediately around these brackets it could be very difficult as this is one of the key reference points for the geometry of the car. Next up are the sills. These are the principle strength of the car. It is possible to make a convertible without further strengthening these are so strong. But of course they are a box section in a vulnerable place so rust out. To verify you need to examine from inside the car. Take out the stainless steel trreadplates covering the sill immediately inside the doors (three screws each), and pull back the carpet from the top and inner sides of the sill so that you can see the top and side of the sill and the junction between sill and floorpan. The outer face is concealed by a screw on panel that carries two rubber bungs to cover the jacking points. You won't get that off at a casual inspection, but do have a poke from beneath. You will see where the cover panel finishes and the sill proper begins. Also ignore what state the cover panel is in - again it's just screw on. The good news is that the car is self supporting by the roof perimeter frame if the sill has gone - so there are no geometry issues - and repair panels are available. Final difficult area is the lower D posts. This is the area of frame revealed by opening the rear door - a sort of mudguard or fender shape. This area is double skinned and has an important junction with the rear of the sill. Again repair panels avialble but some quite tricky shapes to match up. A good search area is to pull up the bases of the rear seats and look under the insulation in the deep pocket against the sill and behind the crossmember that runs across the front of the seat bases. This all from inside the car.
Summary? A stylish and innovative design that wears its age astonishingly well. In its time a truly exceptional drive that is still tennable as a daily driver today. A '66 car is so rare that it can be forgiven a lot of effort to put it right.
Hope that helps!
Chris
Phil Robson
Well-Known Member
What an excellent summary, Chris! 8)
Well, I just got back from checking it out. It was rough, soft and missing floors, the hood (bonnet?) was barely on the car, missing the air cleaner and speaker wires used to wire parts of the ignition circuit, front seats were trashed, etc. The main structure (base?) did seem better (from what i could tell) but I think it is a bit out of my league.I am still tempted (motor sounded very healthy) but first i'll see if I can find more about these cars (i've been reading this forum and learning alot!). Do you guys have any links for places here in america where these might be advertised for sale? Like local clubs or midwest cities that may have had dealerships (where they may be more prevalent?) I really am interested in the p6, but i'd like to find a better start. Thanks alot for the help and replies, christian
If this car is one of the first to be exported is there are way we can see how early? Maybe of significant providence. Do you know chassis number? I would say even if it is in a poor state maybe worth squirrelling away for a later restore. Depending on if it's going cheap. Could be the oldest surviving exported p6?
I don't know the chassis number, any other way to tell? I will be in touch with the owner again so i'll write it down. It is cheap, $350 (240 pounds) and had almost everything, it just all needed fixing. He does have the title for it (which is needed for license plates where i live) The shift linkage had come loose, so i couldn't drive it... but he said he'd get that working and give me a call. I've had plenty of project cars, so i'm not too scared of rust and damage... but backyard fixes make me worried on such an uncommon (over here) car. I'm still interested, but only if it looks like it's possible for me to get it up and running. I know it would be better to find a starter car with less issues, but not so sure that's possible. i'm hooked on this thing now, so i may end up ignoring my better judgement! Here is a link to the advertisement
Edit: sorry I posted a link to the ad for the car before realizing that was not allowed... here's a photo from the ad
Edit: sorry I posted a link to the ad for the car before realizing that was not allowed... here's a photo from the ad
You may be better of getting one that is in road going condition and ready to rock and roll. But if this one is as old as the owner says maybe worth getting anyway at that price, that is if you have somewhere to store it. A couple years ago I had a chance of getting a 1965 car for £500. Was road worthy but needed restoring. At the time I was rebuilding the engine on the soup draggon (my 73 p6) so dimissed it. I'm really kicking my self now for letting it go, more so now as I have really got to like the look of the serise 1 cars.
vaultsman
Well-Known Member
Hi Christian...and welcome! 
It really depends on what your aims, timescale and budget are (and space, of course, as Richard says!) If you're itching to have a road-going Rover then go for a runner as a rolling restoration. On the other hand, if you're happy to view it as a longer-term project and hobby then $350 doesn't sound much of a risk?
Beware though...these cars are seriously addictive!
Whatever you decide...this car or another...you'll always find plenty of help and advice from the good people on this forum.
Good Luck!
It really depends on what your aims, timescale and budget are (and space, of course, as Richard says!) If you're itching to have a road-going Rover then go for a runner as a rolling restoration. On the other hand, if you're happy to view it as a longer-term project and hobby then $350 doesn't sound much of a risk?
Beware though...these cars are seriously addictive!
Whatever you decide...this car or another...you'll always find plenty of help and advice from the good people on this forum.
Good Luck!
chrisw
Well-Known Member
cas said:I don't know the chassis number, any other way to tell? I will be in touch with the owner again so i'll write it down. It is cheap, $350 (240 pounds) and had almost everything, it just all needed fixing. He does have the title for it (which is needed for license plates where i live) The shift linkage had come loose, so i couldn't drive it... but he said he'd get that working and give me a call. I've had plenty of project cars, so i'm not too scared of rust and damage... but backyard fixes make me worried on such an uncommon (over here) car. I'm still interested, but only if it looks like it's possible for me to get it up and running. I know it would be better to find a starter car with less issues, but not so sure that's possible. i'm hooked on this thing now, so i may end up ignoring my better judgement! Here is a link to the advertisement
Edit: sorry I posted a link to the ad for the car before realizing that was not allowed... here's a photo from the ad
An interesting car. LHD, but with UK rear number plate holder and side lights.. Any chance of some more pictures? Did you take any when you looked at it?
I'm going back today for another inspection... with more of a disregard of my better judgement! I will take more photos and post them on here either way, but I do think i'm going to bring it home. I'm not worried about it taking forever before it's nice, only about my abilities to get it there... I've brought some heaps back to life before, but nothing this complex (yep, i consider inboard brakes and de dion suspension complex haha) But as vaultsman said, 350$ isn't much of a risk. I will let you know what happens. thanks again for all the help!
I did it... i bought the car. the number on the title is not the standard vin (that im used to in USA) but maybe you guys can help me figure out any info on the car. it is 40304860B. i will include a picture, which looks better than the car haha. any info would be a big help! i'm sure i bit off more than i can chew with this one, but i do love a challenge.
Well done that man! I think it looks remarkably tidy. If it was in the UK people would be falling over each other to buy that! The paint is reasonably elderly, so the rust has had ample time to show itself, and it hasn't. More importantly the panel fit and lines are excellent, which gives hope for a good base unit.
The no you quote is the Rover chassis no - way before VIN's were invented! The first three digits - 403 - indicates the model series, in this case 2000 SC (single carburettor) LHD Export, built Feb '64 to Aug '70, total production 11,027. The no you quote 48060 doesn't make sense, more likely it is 4806 and the extra 0 is a misread for a space before the B, which refers to the chassis spec. '66 production started at 6,282, so the car is almost certainly September '65 built (718 through to 6,282). As such it is extremely early production. There is at least one "error" visible - the rear lamp clusters have been replaced at some point with the later type with reversing lamps. Yours should have a square red reflector where the reversing lamps are. That's why you haven't got reflectors on the bootlid. This type of rear lamp unit is reasonably readily available, the later type as used on yours is not! Other clues you are likely to find as to the age of the car would be an interior lamp mounted horizontally above the rear window and a light shining over the dash area from behind the rear view mirror. Later cars have a single central lamp. The Rover Co build plate should be found on the left hand (drivers side) front door pillar to verify the build number.
So a few things to get you started! First off you really need the Factory workshop and spares manuals. The first is obvious, the second contains exploded diagrams of every component in the car, so is invaluable for figuring out how things fit together. They are regularely available on Ebay , so I've selected a few roughly appropriate to the age of the car:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Rover-2000-Pa...es_Manuals_Litterature_ET&hash=item563b17dd39
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ROVER-2000-WO...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4aa1b187e3
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Rover-2000-Or...d=ViewItem&pt=Non_Fiction&hash=item4833c42f7f
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Rover-2000-Ow...es_Manuals_Litterature_ET&hash=item19bcad3963
Next up, you'll need to get to know Scott's in Australia for rubber:
http://www.scottsoldautorubber.com.au/Rover P6 2000, P6B 3500.htm
And I'd find your way around Ian Wilson's Rover-Classics, Wynn's and John Wadham's web sites:
http://www.rover-classics.co.uk/
http://www.jrwadhams.co.uk/
http://www.winsintltd.co.uk/index.htm
My favourite USA supplier is the Old English Motor Co
http://jaguru.net/
That should keep you busy for a few minutes!
Regards
Chris
The no you quote is the Rover chassis no - way before VIN's were invented! The first three digits - 403 - indicates the model series, in this case 2000 SC (single carburettor) LHD Export, built Feb '64 to Aug '70, total production 11,027. The no you quote 48060 doesn't make sense, more likely it is 4806 and the extra 0 is a misread for a space before the B, which refers to the chassis spec. '66 production started at 6,282, so the car is almost certainly September '65 built (718 through to 6,282). As such it is extremely early production. There is at least one "error" visible - the rear lamp clusters have been replaced at some point with the later type with reversing lamps. Yours should have a square red reflector where the reversing lamps are. That's why you haven't got reflectors on the bootlid. This type of rear lamp unit is reasonably readily available, the later type as used on yours is not! Other clues you are likely to find as to the age of the car would be an interior lamp mounted horizontally above the rear window and a light shining over the dash area from behind the rear view mirror. Later cars have a single central lamp. The Rover Co build plate should be found on the left hand (drivers side) front door pillar to verify the build number.
So a few things to get you started! First off you really need the Factory workshop and spares manuals. The first is obvious, the second contains exploded diagrams of every component in the car, so is invaluable for figuring out how things fit together. They are regularely available on Ebay , so I've selected a few roughly appropriate to the age of the car:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Rover-2000-Pa...es_Manuals_Litterature_ET&hash=item563b17dd39
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ROVER-2000-WO...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4aa1b187e3
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Rover-2000-Or...d=ViewItem&pt=Non_Fiction&hash=item4833c42f7f
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Rover-2000-Ow...es_Manuals_Litterature_ET&hash=item19bcad3963
Next up, you'll need to get to know Scott's in Australia for rubber:
http://www.scottsoldautorubber.com.au/Rover P6 2000, P6B 3500.htm
And I'd find your way around Ian Wilson's Rover-Classics, Wynn's and John Wadham's web sites:
http://www.rover-classics.co.uk/
http://www.jrwadhams.co.uk/
http://www.winsintltd.co.uk/index.htm
My favourite USA supplier is the Old English Motor Co
http://jaguru.net/
That should keep you busy for a few minutes!
Regards
Chris
That is a great help... you answered my next question before I asked it! I was wondering about the best book, I found ones from autobooks, auto press, haynes (of course) and the factory one. The spares book has drawings of the way things go together? that's great news, as i'm still a bit worried about previous "repairs". it will help to know what things should look like. I wrote the numbers from the title, I will double check the door plate on sunday (when I bring it home, ran out of time to get it loaded up before work today). Here's 2 more photos (the worst parts of the car) I really appreciate all the help with links and info! Those front lights and both bumpers are toast, along with the interior and front wings... but a good portion of the body looks like it can be saved. I'll see when I start taking things apart. The bonnet is there, he removed it because it was bending at the hinges, but it seems to be intact. Thanks again, christian
That does look good. It's even still got the very rare early "sharks tooth" front undertray!
Unless you find old paint readily, you can find out what its original colour was by getting a "Heritage Certificate" from:
http://www.heritage-motor-centre.co.uk/pages/exhibitions/exhibitions_archive_services.html
A Heritage Certificate can be useful in Europe when dealing with licensing authorities and insurance; I'd bet the same is true in the US.
To see what the colour range was for this year's production have a look at Rudiger's web page - he has details and photos of all the colour and trim combinations:
http://www.ruediger-wicke.de/index1.htm
Red interiors look spectacularely period.... Especially against white or wedgewood blue.
Obvious first up needs are going to be a bootlid, two wings and two bumpers! I'd try Old English Motor Co for those first, otherwise they will be very expensive to ship. Since everything is bolt on the damage looks much more spectacular than it really is! OEMCo has a shop on Ebay:
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Old-English-Motor-Company?_rdc=1
I did spot that they have an optional rev counter pod listed. Left hand drive ones of those are extremely rare - looks like a buy it now to me!
One early tip: the ususl first rush of blood see's all the panels off... Make sure you save all the shims under the door hinges and latches so that they can go back exactly as now. Hanging the doors is one of the most difficult jobs on a P6. You can spend literally weeks chasing panel gaps around the car! Since the doors as is look to be extremely well aligned I'd make sure you get them back as now and limit yourself to re-fitting the wings in the best possible alignment.
Ebay wil be a vital tool. I use an international search for P6 bits that you might find helpful. Try copy and pasting this into the search window on Ebay USA and see what happens. If it doesn't work go in via Ebay UK instead (http://www.ebay.co.uk/) and it should work from there:
regards
Chris
Unless you find old paint readily, you can find out what its original colour was by getting a "Heritage Certificate" from:
http://www.heritage-motor-centre.co.uk/pages/exhibitions/exhibitions_archive_services.html
A Heritage Certificate can be useful in Europe when dealing with licensing authorities and insurance; I'd bet the same is true in the US.
To see what the colour range was for this year's production have a look at Rudiger's web page - he has details and photos of all the colour and trim combinations:
http://www.ruediger-wicke.de/index1.htm
Red interiors look spectacularely period.... Especially against white or wedgewood blue.
Obvious first up needs are going to be a bootlid, two wings and two bumpers! I'd try Old English Motor Co for those first, otherwise they will be very expensive to ship. Since everything is bolt on the damage looks much more spectacular than it really is! OEMCo has a shop on Ebay:
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Old-English-Motor-Company?_rdc=1
I did spot that they have an optional rev counter pod listed. Left hand drive ones of those are extremely rare - looks like a buy it now to me!
One early tip: the ususl first rush of blood see's all the panels off... Make sure you save all the shims under the door hinges and latches so that they can go back exactly as now. Hanging the doors is one of the most difficult jobs on a P6. You can spend literally weeks chasing panel gaps around the car! Since the doors as is look to be extremely well aligned I'd make sure you get them back as now and limit yourself to re-fitting the wings in the best possible alignment.
Ebay wil be a vital tool. I use an international search for P6 bits that you might find helpful. Try copy and pasting this into the search window on Ebay USA and see what happens. If it doesn't work go in via Ebay UK instead (http://www.ebay.co.uk/) and it should work from there:
regards
Chris