Kickdown Cable adjustment?

J

John

Active Member
Harvey,
I seem to have a lazy BW35, or should that be lazier? It changes up early, I live on the flatlands but can be in top at 20 (we have the Lancashire blanket 20mph limit in residential areas). It doesn't kickdown, it just progresses (might be thick over carpets, will check that tomorrow as drive full today)
Today I had a look at my cable set up and it appeared slack, and at the end of its adjustment. The Rover book speaks of feeler gauges between the swaged cable stop and outer? I haven't got a swaged stop as in their diagram, what I have is this:

kickdown001.jpg


Live with the big lazy sod? or can a "snap be put in its shorts", to paraphrase Bart Simpson.
Please point me in any direction if applicable, searching previous post has just confused me, not a difficult task.

John.
 
Looking at that cable you need to check that it's getting full throttle first, then if you have more adjustment available, the outer cable needs to be adjusted downwards in the bracket. But if that's still not enough then the only way you're going to get more adjustment on that cable is to remove it from the bracket, and then refit it, but with the locknut underneath the bracket, rather than on top.

Check the throttle adjustment first, and once that's set so you're getting full throttle I'll go through the cable adjustment in more detail.
 
Cheers Harvey, that's tomorrow sorted then, I have discovered why my throttle was heavy, the two heater pipes were sat on top of the upright rod, so I was lifting them as well, they are getting lifted up higher tomorrow also!


John.
 
Great photo, it inspires me to look at adjusting mine as I am pretty sure the kick down is not working, however really personally can not see any use for the kick down other than it proper cable adjustment gives you better and smoother box operation in normal driving.
Of all the automatics I have driven the most annoying feature has always been the kickdown....never at the right time, place and 95% of when it does it I have not wanted it too, all in all just a bloody nuisance.
Being a confirmed manual box lover I far prefer to shift up and down at my convenience witht the stick provided :mrgreen:

When the weather clears I might pop my head under the bonnet and have a look see and maybe a fiddle too :D

Graeme
 
Right, today my brain is more switched on, I have been trying to lift the POWER STEERING pipes, which were resting on the top of the throttle linkage. They are now cable tied out of the way. No wonder it was hard to hold the carbs open manually under the bonnet.

I have full throttle at the carbs, both manually and with the pedal held down by a homemade adjustable bar linkage tool between the pedal and the steering wheel.

I do not have the magic "button" under the pedal mentioned in other threads.

The kickdown cable is still slack at rest. How much tension does it require when being pulled? It appears very easy to pull up, is this normal?

I cannot road test until later as I am still blocked in by family cars, is there any thing I can be setting at the engine end while I wait?
 
Harvey, current state of play;
Kickdown cable max adjusted with lock nut underneath

kickdown005.jpg


Carb linkage set up

kickdown002-1.jpg


Still no kickdown.
I can manually shift all gears smoothly
Goes into top about 25 mph unless I nail it, then about 40mph.
Drives from rest and up the box silky smooth, almost unnoticable if I didn't have a rev counter.
Live with it, and use torque for overtakes?

Now going to find some cream for the burn to my right wrist, If the car is ever stolen my DNA is on the n/s header, and I think I left a testicle on the n/s sidelight telltale. :LOL:

John.
 
Make sure it's not able to flop down & obscure the sidelight as that's a pull, though whether it'll be by Plod or a suitably-impressed young lady is entirely down to luck.
 
John said:
The kickdown cable is still slack at rest. How much tension does it require when being pulled? It appears very easy to pull up, is this normal?

I cannot road test until later as I am still blocked in by family cars, is there any thing I can be setting at the engine end while I wait?
Click to expand...

I see you've moved the locknut to below the bracket, which is a cheat really, but does give you the maximum adjustment possible. If it's like that and getting full throttle then the first thing I'd do is pull the cable up manually, and feel whether in pulling as far as you can (which will be beyond what the throttle linkage can move it) you can feel it operating the kickdown cam inside the box. It feels like a little bump as you pull the cable up and get towards the end of travel. If you can feel that, I'd say that with the adjustment set as it is on the cable, the cable must be the wrong one. I can't think of anything else. If when you pull the cable up all you feel is it going solid at the end of travel then it's become disconnected at the bottom end. At rest, there shouldn't be any slack in the cable, but it shouldn't be so tight that it holds the valve open. You don't appear to be able to get it tight, so something, somewhere needs sorting. If the cable is the wrong one, it will be because the inner cable is too long relative to the inner, and there are ways that you can prove the point before resorting to buying a new cable.
As those cables are all made to measure now, rather than being a Rover or BW part, mistakes can be made in manufacture, and also, with 40 year old cars, often the wrong cable gets fitted, just because it's available, and it fits. (It doesn't necessarily work, but it fits.....)

See what you can feel pulling the cable up with your fingers.

Sorry to hear about the testicle.
 
Hi John , I know Harvey is on the case here , but have you checked the condition of the throttle linkage bushes in the bracket by the bulkhead and across the manifold to the carbs ? They are prone to wear and being bodged . I fitted new ones to mine and with a bit of fine tuning / adjusting the cable , got it to work . If they are worn or missing there is slack at the kick down cable .
Steady as you go though , if you loose the other testicle you'll loose all interest in things mechanical :LOL:

Ps this link may help
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9584&start=15
 
Cheers Harvey, it will be a few days before I have another go as I'm too pumped with painkillers after today. I didn't feel much resistance when pulling the cable, so it might be disconnected at the bottom end, how bad is that to do (for an aged raspberry ripple the size of a large bear without a pit or lift but with jacks and stands). What detriment to the box, if any, is a non functioning kickdown?

There is another "cheat" for over long cables/shortage of adjustment. I encountered it on the front brake of a Honda 50 Stepthru I examined, a piece of split copper pipe long enough to take up the slack placed over the cable then crimped shut. It was an interesting interpretation of brake adjuster. but it was after a fatal accident, so I can guarantee the perpetrator wont repeat it.

Stina, the throttle linkages and bushes are in very good condition, I remember your thread so I checked them. I am rapidly losing interest in all things mechanical after this afternoon! :LOL:


John.
 
John said:
I didn't feel much resistance when pulling the cable, so it might be disconnected at the bottom end, how bad is that to do (for an aged raspberry ripple the size of a large bear without a pit or lift but with jacks and stands). What detriment to the box, if any, is a non functioning kickdown?
Click to expand...

Not having kickdown in itself isn't a problem if that's only caused by not getting full throttle, but if it's caused by the adjustment on the cable being wrong, that means that at all engine speeds over idle the pressures will be too low relative to the throttle opening, which is not a good thing, but worst of all is running with it disconnected, because that means at all throttle openings the box is only going to have idle speed line pressure, and that's going to mean a very short life for the box. If you find the cable is disconnected at the bottom then it's a matter of draining the fluid and removing the sump, and then refitting the cable to the operating cam. Easy, providing you can get under there in the first place.
 
Time to find my deerstalker hat and go investigating methinks.........

Many thanks Harvey, again, as usual, I am indebted to you, have a metaphorical pint on me. :D



John
 
Harvey, had my deerstalker on today, I removed the clevis pin so I could pull the cable. I can feel the bump when I pull the cable, but, this is about 3/4" past for the bracket. This made me think the cable is too long, but (lots of buts here) the bracket which the adjustment is made from is not parallel to the floor, it is bent upwards about 3/8".
This makes me think if I bend it downwards, to 1/4" to 3/8"ish over centre I should be able to get an adjustment. A bit of a bodge I know, but until I can change the cable it will buy time.
So how much longer is the wrong cable, or, how much shorter is the right cable, if they come in measurable varieties.
Sorry to be a pain, but you are the only P6 Guru I know of.


John.
 
There are two different lengths of cable on P6B's, but hundreds of different cables for other vehicles which would have the same fittings top and bottom but be of different lengths.

You say the bracket is bent, and looking at your photo the cable alignment as it comes out of the outer cable and up to the clevis doesn't look good, but from pics alone it's diffeicult to tell. It sounds as though it's still connected at the bottom, and as you're at the limit of adjustment on the cable, then if the bracket is bent, then it needs straightening. I've seen the horizontal throttle rod twisted where people have bent it in an effort to do who knows what. If yours had been twisted so looking from the rear the arm where the cable clips in had been bent downwards, then twisting it back upwards relative to the front end would remove the slack, and give more scope for adjustment. If you mean the bracket itself is bent, then the bit at the bottom that the cable screws into should be parallel with the bit that goes over the manifold and secures under the air cleaner mounting pin as far as I remember. I wouldn't bend it any further than that. This is difficult because there's no substitute for actually being there and looking at it, even though your pics are good. I'll have another look at them.
 
Obviously if it is the wrong cable you are going to struggle, but you can bend the bracket back down to where it should be to gain some more, and reset the throttle rod if it's twisted, and if you get really desperate you can fit a much thicker fibre washer under the kickdown cable where it fits into the box, but by the time you're that far in, the sump will be off and you may as well fit a new cable. Personally I think it's all probably been bent by a clever person, who has then given up and left it, and now you're left sorting it out.

I do have a new cable which, 1) I could measure if you get you're one off, and 2) sell you if the measurements are different and could account for all your problems.
 
I've just looked at a bracket I have here. If you were to look directly at it from the rear of the engine, the adjuster bracket is "L" shaped, welded to the main bracket, but it's not upright, it's at about 5 past 7, and the bottom of the "L" is at 90 degrees to this, so in fact slopes upwards, but taking into account the slope of the head, and the fact that the the bracket over the manifold and the adjuster bracket are parallel, it's difficult to make comparisons once it's on the engine, and to what you've got going on there.
 
I've also looked at the throttle rod, and the two roll pins, front and rear should be in alignment with each other, and if they are both horizontal looking from the rear, (quarter to three) then the arm for the clevis sits at about 8 o'clock.

I reckon with the two assembled, and with the roll pins horizontal then the gap between the centre of the clevis pin hole on the throttle rod, and the top of the adjuster bracket should be 2". and the cable will come out of the bracket at 90 degrees to it, and that line will take it directly through the centre of the clevis pin hole. So a straight line through the clevis pin hole, the adjuster bracket, and the top of the cable.
 
Many Thanks Harvey, will go out tomorrow and do some measuring and roll pin alignment checks. I find it hard to believe the wrong cable would have been fitted by Rovers Return/J&P restoration, BUT (there's that word again), the garage which serviced regularly since the restoration had the heads off not so many miles before I bought it, and although they are a highly regarded classic Jag garage locally I have found some reassembly problems, choke cable setting etc. so I might have some of the linkage out.
There are no bills for any gearbox work since 1993 and the elderly driver probably would not notice a lack of kickdown, the car only did 60 miles in the previous 2 yrs before I bought her.
Back to my detectives deerstalker.... Although I feel I'm more Watson to your Sherlock :LOL:


John.
 
John said:
I find it hard to believe the wrong cable would have been fitted by Rovers Return/J&P restoration,
Click to expand...

They will have bought the cable in I would imagine, and AFAIK they are now made to order rather than being stock items, and have been for a good while I would think, so mistakes in manufacture are more likely. Although regardless of that they should have got it so it was correctly adjusted, and everything, including the kickdown was working as it should be. So if you can't get it to work, then you have to assume that it never has since it was fitted.
 
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