Hello everyone

M

mightyzorg

New Member
Hello everyone, I'm Rob a brand new P6B owner (me not the car !) Mine is a 1971 car in dark (mexico?) brown. Sadly even though I was aware that the engine was not at it's best, it all but failed on the way home therefore I'm on the lookout for a replacement.
Does anyone know how to identify the various compression ratios eyc as my local scrappy has a couple of range rover V8's in of the correct capacity. Are things like the sump the same between the 2?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Rob
 
Hello Rob,

Welcome to the forum and to the experience of being a Rover owner. Sorry to hear of your troubles,..what actually happened to the engine? Range Rover engines in the 3.5 litre capacity have different sumps which won't clear the front cross member beneath the engine. The timing covers and water pump are also different which makes clearance between the fan and radiator a problem. You would have to change all of these items in order to allow fitment into your P6B.

In many cases problems with a Rover V8 which on the surface may seem terminal can in fact be quite easy to put right.

Ron.
 
welcome the mighty Zorg ( now where have I heard that before :D ) i hope your currnet P6 ailment is short lived.


PS as above repair is probably the better option

PPS if you get a 2nd hand moter you may end up with another problem later, it's better to knbow what you have got from the start
graeme
 
Hi Rob, welcome aboard! Compression ratio should be stamped on a pad with the engine number where the dipstick enters the engine block or (on some engines) behind the LH cylinder head. Your car should have had a 10.5:1 engine. Most Rangies will be low comp 8.13:1 or thereabouts.The RangeRover sump is a rear pan which will be fine for a 3500S (manual) but not an auto as the exhaust crosses under the back of the sump. You will also have to swap the front timing cover and water pump as the RR pump is mounted quite a bit higher. If you found a good Rangie motor though, there is no reason why you couldn't use the core of it and just swap the front cover, sump, pulleys, exhaust manifolds, carbs and air cleaner etc etc... You may find them a bit down on horsepower although the torque was supposedly the same but you can run them on lower octane petrol. :D
Try to find out what year the Rangie motors are. They had a number of upgrades over the P6 lump over the years: Bigger valves, stronger block and conrods, better oil seals etc..
 
Hi Ron, Basically the engine has very low oil pressure with the kight on at anything under 1500 rpm when hot, when cold, pressure registers 30 on the gauge, also it seems to leak quite badly from somewhere underneath and also fumes too, I am surprised that it is so bad as I have MoT certificates going back many years which show that the 77 thousand miles shown is most likely genuine.
I did have a feeling that replacing the engine would not be straightforward without using a P6B engine.
Oh well, better get trawling ebay !
Rob
SydneyRoverP6B said:
Hello Rob,

Welcome to the forum and to the experience of being a Rover owner. Sorry to hear of your troubles,..what actually happened to the engine? Range Rover engines in the 3.5 litre capacity have different sumps which won't clear the front cross member beneath the engine. The timing covers and water pump are also different which makes clearance between the fan and radiator a problem. You would have to change all of these items in order to allow fitment into your P6B.

In many cases problems with a Rover V8 which on the surface may seem terminal can in fact be quite easy to put right.

Ron.
Click to expand...
 
sounds like an ideal candidate for some new rings bearing shells and timing gear, should be right as rain (check the camshaft too)

Graeme
 
Hi and thanks for the info, my problem is that I don't have the space to do any of this work myself just the street outside my house and the local authority wouldn't be too happy with me working on it to such an extent not to mention the neighbours who already have complained about my '69 Vauxhall "cluttering up the place " (parking is tight to say the least) so it looks like I'll have to find someone to do the work for me which is a pain and likely to be expensive. Oh well !
Rob
KiwiRover said:
Hi Rob, welcome aboard! Compression ratio should be stamped on a pad with the engine number where the dipstick enters the engine block or (on some engines) behind the LH cylinder head. Your car should have had a 10.5:1 engine. Most Rangies will be low comp 8.13:1 or thereabouts.The RangeRover sump is a rear pan which will be fine for a 3500S (manual) but not an auto as the exhaust crosses under the back of the sump. You will also have to swap the front timing cover and water pump as the RR pump is mounted quite a bit higher. If you found a good Rangie motor though, there is no reason why you couldn't use the core of it and just swap the front cover, sump, pulleys, exhaust manifolds, carbs and air cleaner etc etc... You may find them a bit down on horsepower although the torque was supposedly the same but you can run them on lower octane petrol. :D
Try to find out what year the Rangie motors are. They had a number of upgrades over the P6 lump over the years: Bigger valves, stronger block and conrods, better oil seals etc..
Click to expand...
 
Agreed Gaeme, I think that's probably the best way forward unless I can find a decent P6B unit locally. Gonna have a chat with a mechanic friend of mine, see what he says.

Rob
ghce said:
sounds like an ideal candidate for some new rings bearing shells and timing gear, should be right as rain (check the camshaft too)

Graeme
Click to expand...
 
Hi Rob,

Well it could be as simple as the wrong grade of oil. The oil warning light switch can also give problems so there is no guarantee that there is not an issue there too. I certainly wouldn't throw it out just yet as everyone has indicated, and with only 77,000 miles the engine is hardly touched. My original 3.5 saw over 200,000 miles and it still had good oil pressure and the warning light never came on while the engine was running. Flame traps, filters, clean hoses, new coolant, etc and the engine will give a better indication of its destination...a stayer or a spot on the floor.

I have heard of engines that leaked badly and fumed somewhat and a recommendation of spending vast sums of money for a rebuild when in reality all that was needed were new flame traps, their hoses and carburettor attachement pipes cleaned.

Ron.
 
Very true Ron, Have had a similar experience with one of my past Hondas, used the wrong oil, smoked like the rings were broken and used so much oil, put the rifgt stuff in and it never used a drop between changes, no smoke neither. 77K seems a little light for the described symptoms camshafts can give problems at those miles but hardly would have thought rings ( my beastie is still on origional rings and bearings at 225,000 Km's).

Graeme
 
I think that I will try an oil and filter change first also a look at all the flame traps etc as you suggest before lashing out large sums of money on it, I do agree that 77000 does seem a low mileage for this to happen. I'll keep you posted !
Rob
SydneyRoverP6B said:
Hi Rob,

Well it could be as simple as the wrong grade of oil. The oil warning light switch can also give problems so there is no guarantee that there is not an issue there too. I certainly wouldn't throw it out just yet as everyone has indicated, and with only 77,000 miles the engine is hardly touched. My original 3.5 saw over 200,000 miles and it still had good oil pressure and the warning light never came on while the engine was running. Flame traps, filters, clean hoses, new coolant, etc and the engine will give a better indication of its destination...a stayer or a spot on the floor.

I have heard of engines that leaked badly and fumed somewhat and a recommendation of spending vast sums of money for a rebuild when in reality all that was needed were new flame traps, their hoses and carburettor attachement pipes cleaned.

Ron.
Click to expand...
 
30 when cold is not actually that bad - if at idle that is.

Where is the pressure at tickover when cold and hot, and say at 2,000rpm when cold and hot?

When I was younger I had a similar problem and solved it by (Can't do it now, too fa... ermmm old)

1/. changing the big end and main bearings in situ - not as difficult as it first sounds.

2/. fitting an uprated oil pump - not really necessarry but made well worth the effort.

3/. putting some classic 20w 50 oil in it

When you said it failed, do you mean it made horrible noises? or did just the oil light come on?

I drove around for several years with the oil light on as the gauge contradicted it, I put a bit on tape over it for a long while.

Richard
 
Hi Richard,

When I start it from cold, the pressure at idle is 30 psi according to the gauge, at 2000 or so it's about 40 ish, as the engine warms up this drops to almost zero on the gauge abd light on at idle rising to no more than 15 to 20 at 2000 - 2500. Engine didn't really make any horrible noises and drove quite well. I'm going to try an oil and filter change with a good 20/50 oil but I am quite sure that my luck won't hold and I'll have to go down the replacement bearing & oil pump route at least, the horrible stench seemed to be that one of the rocker cover breather pipes was disconnected (engine doesn't seem to be breathing that heavily) but I do still have the leak problem. I'll get underneath it one day soon and see where that is coming from but I suspect it will be the rear crank seal as it's in that area.
Just ordered a Haynes manual which will hopefilly be of some assistance if I do change the bearings & pump/

Ro
quattro said:
30 when cold is not actually that bad - if at idle that is.

Where is the pressure at tickover when cold and hot, and say at 2,000rpm when cold and hot?

When I was younger I had a similar problem and solved it by (Can't do it now, too fa... ermmm old)

1/. changing the big end and main bearings in situ - not as difficult as it first sounds.

2/. fitting an uprated oil pump - not really necessarry but made well worth the effort.

3/. putting some classic 20w 50 oil in it

When you said it failed, do you mean it made horrible noises? or did just the oil light come on?

I drove around for several years with the oil light on as the gauge contradicted it, I put a bit on tape over it for a long while.

Richard
Click to expand...
 
Oh Bother! Didn't get the advice out quick enough! Mr Haynes is definitely not the way to go - get the factory workshop manual available new for about the same money, and the factory spares manual which has exploded diagrams of everything in it. Again available new. Have a browse of Ebay!

Chris
 
Hi Chris, I may end up with the factory books as well, the Haynes book was only 99p from ebay so not to worried there lol.
I have just changed the oil and filter and as I suspected, it's made almost no difference whatsoever, I'm going to have to accept that I'm looking at a rebuild or replacement, either that or just cut my losses and sell it on. Feeling somewhat disheartened at the moment :(
chrisyork said:
Oh Bother! Didn't get the advice out quick enough! Mr Haynes is definitely not the way to go - get the factory workshop manual available new for about the same money, and the factory spares manual which has exploded diagrams of everything in it. Again available new. Have a browse of Ebay!

Chris
Click to expand...
 
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