Engine oil for P6B

rockdemon

Administrator
Staff member
#81
Thanks chris,

I've already ordered that very filter. I'll look up the morris 15/50 :) I used the semi synthetic one last time - is there a reason that should be avoided? Seemed to run quieter than the castrol classic 20/50 i replaced it with? - they all have the right zddp and are for pre-1980 engines.

Rich.
 
#82
You're trying to avoid anything with detergent in it. Check that the semi sunth doesn't!!

I have checked the data sheets specially and can confirm that Castrol Classic XL 20W50 doesn't have the right amount of ZDDP. Only one Castrol has and that's GP 4T 20W/50 - and if you can find some of that you're doing really well!

Chris
 

rockdemon

Administrator
Staff member
#84
Hi Chris,

I contacted miller and they confirmed that their semi synthetic is a low detergent oil like their mineral classic 2050, and that it's suitable for the v8.

They gave the following report based on my car too - tells you their oils that match specs.


P6, 3500, 1968-1969
Manufacturer:
Drive type: r.w.d.
Cylinder capacity: 3531 cc
Power output: 160 HP / 118 kW at 5000 RPM

Engine
Petrol, 4-stroke, 8 cilinder, V, 2 valves/cyl, liquid cooled
Cylinder capacity: 3531 cc
Power output: 160 HP/118 kW at 5000 RPM
Capacity 5.7 liter
Filter capacity: 0.6 liter

Use: Normal
Check 1000 km
Change 8000 km/6 months

OEM recommendation
temperate climate API: MS SAE 10W-30
temperate climate API: MS SAE 10W-40
temperate climate API: MS SAE 20W-20

Company products
temperate climate Classic Performance 20/50
temperate climate Classic Sport 20/50


Transmission, automatic
Automatic
Capacity 8 liter
Gears forward: 3
Gears reverse: 1

Use: Normal
Check 8000 km

OEM recommendation
year-round ATF, Type A Suffix A -

Company products
year-round Millermatic ATF UN


Differential, rear
Capacity 1.25 liter

Use: Normal
Check 8000 km
Change 32000 km

OEM recommendation
temperate climate API: GL-5 SAE 90

Company products
temperate climate Hypoid 90 GL5
temperate climate Hypoid 80w90 GL5


Hydraulic brake system


Use: Normal
Check 8000 km
Change 64000 km/36 months

OEM recommendation
year-round SAE J1703 -

Company products
year-round Universal DOT 4 Brake Fluid


Grease points/nipples, wheel bearings, front


Use: Normal
Check 16000 km

OEM recommendation
year-round Lithium base multipurpose grease NLGI No. 2

Company products
year-round Delta 2EP


Grease points, 'de Dion' tube


Use: Normal
Check 16000 km

OEM recommendation
temperate climate API: MS SAE 10W-30
temperate climate API: MS SAE 10W-40
temperate climate API: MS SAE 20W-20

Company products
temperate climate Classic Performance 20/50
temperate climate Classic Sport 20/50


Cooling system
Capacity 8.7 liter

Use: Normal


OEM recommendation
year-round Water with antifreeze (ethylene glycol base) -

Company products
No product found


Carburettor damper


Use: Normal
Check 16000 km

OEM recommendation
temperate climate Heavy Duty Motor Oil (classics) SAE 20W

Company products
No product found


Steering box


Use: Normal
Check 16000 km

OEM recommendation
temperate climate API: GL-5 SAE 90

Company products
temperate climate Hypoid 90 GL5
temperate climate Hypoid 80w90 GL5


Hope that's some help to somebody else:)

Rich
 
#85
i remain deeply suspicious of the semi synth. I think my caution is based on the knowledge that we are running old engines. If you were to start from scratch with a brand new engine it wouldn't bother me nearly so much.The key issue seems to me to be to avoid upsetting any of the old carbon deposits that lie around in huge quantities in all old V8's. Hence no detergent, no making the inside of your rocker covers look pristine with a bit of aggreessive cleaning and no semi synths!

The only circumstances where I would do some deliberate cleaning work inside the engine would be when I had it down to the last nut and bolt - and then all components would go away for chemical cleaning. Oil flows to the rocker gear on the V8 are already dreadful and I would be too concerned about dislodged bits of carbon getting into oilways to do anything else.

Chris
 

rockdemon

Administrator
Staff member
#86
Well PAE is now running on the morris 15/50. Seems quieter to my ear on start up and when up to temperature than on the castrol...

Rich.
 
#87
chrisyork said:
The only circumstances where I would do some deliberate cleaning work inside the engine would be when I had it down to the last nut and bolt - and then all components would go away for chemical cleaning. Oil flows to the rocker gear on the V8 are already dreadful and I would be too concerned about dislodged bits of carbon getting into oilways to do anything else.
Chris
I agree completely, as Chris has stated elsewhere, the Buick V8 is a "dirty" engine, and has been so from drawing board to the present day - performance companys have done their best to minimise the problems designed unwittingly into the engine,at considerable cost to their customers, but it has limits, that modern lubricants can not always prove to be an asset to a basically
old engine. That is not to say that we do not love it, design faults and all !

An "on song" V8 is only second best to an "on song" V12 !
 

corazon

Well-Known Member
#88
I think I'll be trying the Morris 15W50 as I'm due a change.
However, I just found a Lucas "racing only" 20W50 mineral.
Quoted in another forum:
"Forest Lucas himself told me its 1400 ppm of zinc, and 1200 ppm copper phosphate."
It's around a tenner more than the Morris as I guess it's imported from the States
Jim
 
#90
rockdemon said:
I've tried the 15 50 - not so good. Blue smoke on startup and a tendency to leak.

I've been running the Morris 15/50 in my 3500 for the last one or two oil changes (can't remember offhand) after mentioning it on this forum a while ago.

I've got an engine with no oil leaks, and no smoke on start-up.

Mine is an engine with low mileage since rebuild, I'd imagine that makes a large difference.

Jim.
 

SydneyRoverP6B

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#91
For Australian conditions, the recommended engine oils for the P6B are, in terms of Penrite, HPR30 which is a 20W60 multigrade oil, and for engines with many miles the more viscous HPR40, which is a 25W70 grade oil. Penrite is the official supplier to Land Rover Australia, and these oils are also their recommendation.

I have been using HPR30 in my 4.6 since dropping the running in oil, so just over 70,000 Miles, and find it to be excellent. Like a 20W50 grade oil, it possesses similar pour characteristics at room temperature, but at 100 degrees C offers improved engine protection from being slightly more viscous.

Ron.
 
#92
Been reading with some interest the varied opinions on Engine oil grade for the V8 so for what it's worth I'll throw mine into the pot.
If you speak to JE Engineering who know a thing about the 3500 they have for years used Castrol Magnatec 15w 40. Other engine builders state side also use this grade as they feel 20W 50 does not protect the cam gear and distributor drive from cold on the 215. The consensus from their stand point is to use a decent 15W 40 and add something like 'Crane ZDDP additive' at £10.00 a go. Keeping it simple. I have followed this advice and it sure works.

Regards
Rich
 
#93
SydneyRoverP6B said:
Penrite is the official supplier to Land Rover Australia, and these oils are also their recommendation.
From my (albeit limited) experience, I can vouch for the efficacy of Penrite oils.
Prior to using the Penrite "20/60 Extra 10 with ZZDP", I was using Valvoline Classic and some other Castrol oil, whose name escapes me now.
Upon switching to the Penrite product, I noticed;
Quieter idle
Better oil pressure
More power...as if the motor was "tighter"
Less carbon in the oil at oil change
 

GRTV8

Well-Known Member
#94
billoddie said:
SydneyRoverP6B said:
Penrite is the official supplier to Land Rover Australia, and these oils are also their recommendation.
From my (albeit limited) experience, I can vouch for the efficacy of Penrite oils.
Prior to using the Penrite "20/60 Extra 10 with ZZDP", I was using Valvoline Classic and some other Castrol oil, whose name escapes me now.
Upon switching to the Penrite product, I noticed;
Quieter idle
Better oil pressure
More power...as if the motor was "tighter"
Less carbon in the oil at oil change
Ditto for me too
In fact Mal Clarke { ByGone Auto's ] suggested I use the Penrite HPR40 - 20/70 extra 10 when I complained about my erratic oil pressure .
I'll stick with the HPR30 penrite as Ive got the new upgrade oil pump kit about to go into action any day .
Gerald
 
#95
I know it's 3 years since this thread petered out but I can add a wee update. Firstly though I have to say thanks for everyone's input because as a V8S newbie this forum was my 1st port of call for all my plans. As Oil is fairly fundamental rightly so this thread is perfect for reference and getting to the bottom of things.

My tuppence worth is that I spoke to a bloke at Opie oils, and he assures me that there IS plenty enough ZDDP in the Castrol Classic XL 20/50. I did mention that someone (no names given) had had the spec sheet for the Castrol XL and that it wasn't sufficient. He simply refuted that saying that it was a perfectly good oil. He also reckons that the branded 20/50 oils will all generally have modern equivalents of ZDDP so as to protect the hard-wearing components in classic engines. You could spend more (Valvolene) or less (Silkolene) but you'll be OK. One that he also stocks he felt was definitely overpriced; and he wasn't that keen on another cheaper one but he doesn't stock it so read into that what you will. Both mentioned in this thread but may be in trouble if I mention them so PM me if you wish.

So for me I'm happy with Castrol Classic XL 20/50. On eBay from Opie oils 20litres for£80. 4 yrs servicing for £4/l or 2 yrs worth if 2 classics - I know you could all figure that out for yourselves, doh!

I'll let you know if things go horribly wrong in coming months but quick question if anyone's looking. Planning on doing the 'approved' top end rebuild this summer - SD1 heads and front timing cover, new cam, Cloyes duplex timing and cog and Lucky BreathEasy mod. Should I use a cheaper running in oil for few hundred miles before refilling with the good stuff? Also, anyone have experience of the Crower CompU Pro camshaft?

Hope this helps in some way
 

rockdemon

Administrator
Staff member
#96
Hi - this discussion about the castrol has come up before. I'd personally stick to millers classic or valvolene. By the way there is a forum discount code for opie oilsso whichever one you get make sure you get your discount :)

Rich
 

rockdemon

Administrator
Staff member
#98
That's interesting - Worth noting that's a newly rebuilt engine. If it's an older engine, i thought the detergents were a bad idea, as they can dislodge debris to cause havoc around the engine.

Interesting that they don't mention comma sonic (which is 20/50 with high zddp) or morris oils golden film.

On price i've generally found millers for around £25 and if you look around you can get the valvoline for £29 for 5 litres on ebay...

For the sake of a fiver or tenner difference I'd just buy the right stuff myself.
 
#99
Hi, There has been a recent discussion on another forum I use where someone wanted a high ZDDP oil for a 50s GM engine. The oil suppliers keep playing about with the oils and this member has collated the recent results of his findings. I've linked to the last page where he posts the findings, if it's of interest. -

What Grade of oil, in rebuilt motor

Colin
Hi Rich - Thanks. I'm going to try for the discount but don't think it applies to the eBay deal. I'll also buy a K&N filter so will have to speak to them to try and bundle everything. Will let you know what I achieve (or not)!
Also found your link to the utube vid on oils/ZDDP pretty good.
Must admit I'm finding it hard to go against Chris Yorks advice but if the alternative is Millers it sure is pricey.

Hi Colin. Thanks also. I'll look at at straight away. I haven't bought anything yet but would like to buy bulk (wel 20 litres or so) to keep price down without sacrificing quality too much. I know it's looking after the V8 that counts so will make sure the oil will do the job before I buy.
 

jp928

Active Member
So if the outer 4 head bolts are suspect in distorting the head sealing, is there any point in slackening them off? Or just leave them out next time the head is R&R?
Just checking the torques (70ft/lb for the main 10 bolts vs 45 ft/lb for the outers), I see that the official manual (AKM3621) for P6B says bolts 1,2,4 are the long ones, which is wrong - it should be 1,3,5 - the central ones. Haynes for the SD1 uses the same diagram, but gets the numbers right.
Also just saw a Penrite video on the difference between mineral and synthetic oils, and it said that as long as one uses the correct specification it shouldnt matter which, even in older engines like ours. They call up HPR30 (20W60), but said a synthetic in that spec should be fine. Anybody done this? I have heard that synthetics leak more than minerals....
thanks
 
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