Diversity is a good thing. Right?

Hi KR,

I am pleased to hear that you will be removing the 3 litre BMW 6 cylinder engine and refitting the proper 3 litre Stag V8. The wonderful sound that the V8 makes is reason enough to spend the time doing it. :)

I like both colours too, especially that on the 'parts' car, reminds me of a pine lime splice.

Look forward to seeing the progress!

Ron.
 
Thanks Ron, i'll keep updating then. I may have spotted a problem with my plans though. The manual steering rack is non-standard and mounted on some hefty plates attached to the front of a heavily modified crossmember. The crossmember needs to be changed to refit the V8 (no problem there, the parts car has the bits) but that means that I can't re-use the manual steering rack and I can't use the rhd pas rack from the parts car. :( I wonder how hard it will be to track down a lhd power rack for a Stag or 2.5 saloon (they are the same btw)
Luckily there are a couple of Triumph specialists just around the corner from my work so I will show off the car to them tomorrow and see what they suggest. I'll also be chasing up the Stag club again. Maybe someone out there has a suitable rack siting in their garage just waiting for me. :)
 
Thanks Graham but not quite, those are Herald racks. They don't list a rack in the Stag section unfortunately... Rimmers list reco'd lhd racks for 266 quid but the exchange surcharge is 500! And I don't have a rack to exchange.
 
The BMW lump is an odd choice. I've ever come across a Stag with anything other than the Rover V8 installed. As much as I love the Rover V8, I'm pleased to see Stags reacquiring their original engines. Last time I was in the UK I happened upon a beautifully presented Stag at the shops just down the road from my brother's house and got talking to the very pleasant owner, who informed me that his son had a Stag as well. Both cars had been purchased with Rover V8s installed, but with their original engines intact. Over the previous winter both cars had been refitted with the Stag engines, rebuilt to reliable specification. I have to admit, the crackle of a well-sorted Stag V8 is lovely to listen to. It's a very different sort of V8 to the Rover engine.
 
Yes, it`s two of the Dolomite slant 4`s joined together essentially. A very oversquare design for the time and they do sound glorious when running properly.
 
Have you considered using the bits from the parts car to convert it to RHD? It would increase the value in a RHD country.
 
Have you considered using the bits from the parts car to convert it to RHD? It would increase the value in a RHD country.

I did consider it briefly. It may increase the value and I will certaily keep the parts on hand in case I sell it but it would decrease my interest in the car immensely. I like the quirk factor.

Ouch! USA might be cheaper...

I was thinking that too, but Stag parts seem to be few and far between on Ebay USA. There is a parts page on the US Stag club site but very few details. I may just have to email them but i'm going to ask around locally first.
I stumbled on a 2 year old post on the UK Stag owners club forum by a guy in NZ that was converting his lhd car to rhd, and my car must have had a proper rack in it at some point, so there should be at least 2 in NZ. :D
 
rottenlungs said:
Yes, it`s two of the Dolomite slant 4`s joined together essentially. A very oversquare design for the time and they do sound glorious when running properly.

Somewhere I read the opposite; that the Dolomite engine is half a Stag V8. It may be a case of both answers being correct: Triumph were aiming for a modular engine range at that time.
 
I think they were developed together. The plan was to have an engine that could cover 1500cc to 4 litre on the same line tooling so I don't think it was ever a case of "lets chop the V8 in half", or "let's glue on some more cylinders." It's just that the 4 cylinder saw the light of day first in the Saab 99.
 
That squares with what I recall reading, Al. Sounds like a good idea, screwed by the sucking of Triumph into the dirty swirling vortex of British Leyland.
 
It is intriguing that they didn`t put the Rover V8 in the Stag at the time. It would seem the obvious choice; light , powerful and proven. Judging by the number of after-market retrofits , it can be done quite readily, too.

Though I think the ex-Triumph engineers must have had a bit of clout. After all the 1500 Triumph engine found its way into the MG Midget, much to the Octagon`s dismay.
 
And Vauxhall and Rover were on the same kick. The Vauxhall 1.6/1.8/2ltr/2.3ltr slant four is half of their V8, while Rover had a 2.2 ltr slant four for the P10 which almost certainly accounts for rumours I heard of a 4.4 V8 for the P8. Lotus actually managed to build both of their engines, the 2ltr/2.2ltr slant four and the V8 for the Esprit.

The Stag engine, when launched, got a very cool reception, being regarded as a very ordinary spec with a very ordinary result. Clearly it had potential, with larger capacities and the Sprint head available. It didn't help that the Stag was so obviously a cruiser rather than a sports car.

There's a lovely story that may or not be true as to how Triumph got to build this engine. The Stag was quite late on the scene, having always been a potential runner as a sporting version of the 2000/2500 saloon. Late enough that it just missed being a solely Triumph design and got to be managed by the Specialist Division in the run up to launch. That meant it got Spen King as chief engineer. You can see little results of that - it has the same 1/4 light winders, including knobs, as the S2 P6. But when Spen told them they had to use the Rover V8 they said they couldn't cos the Rover was too wide.... We all know now who was right there. But perhaps it lead to the V8 getting a bit of a hurried preparation? Perhaps they might originally have launched with the straight six and then had a seperate launch for the V8 in both the Stag and the saloon? Certainly there were prototypes of the latter.

Chris
 
chrisyork said:
...rumours I heard of a 4.4 V8 for the P8.

It was more than rumour, wasn't it? The P8 version of the V8 was essentially what landed in engine bay of the Leyland P76.
 
WarrenL said:
chrisyork said:
...rumours I heard of a 4.4 V8 for the P8.

It was more than rumour, wasn't it? The P8 version of the V8 was essentially what landed in engine bay of the Leyland P76.

That's what I thought originally. But the reason the 4.4 went to Australia - it was part of the the V8 engine line up from day 1 in '66 - was that Rover had made a small error when installing the V8 engine line. It was supposed to be able to cope with both the 3.5 and the 4.4, but in fact was installed so that the wider bore centres of the 4.4 were not achievable. Quack quack OOOPS! And that's a Rover Co error not Leyland or BL.

So the 4.4 was never on the cards for any UK application. But twice 2.2 just happens to be.....
 
Where did you get that info, Chris? Here's what Hardcastle says:

"In 1969-70 Rover engineers were given a brief to produce to a Rover V8 with the largest possible capacity in anticipation of it being used as the powerplant in the proposed P8 saloon. The stroke only was increased within the limits of connecting-rod/camshaft clearance, resulting in a "square" 4404cc engine... The project involved much capital outlay but was cancelled along with the P8 saloon.

"The Rover P8, with its 4.4-litre V8 engine would have been quite a car... [goes on to describe the prototypes]...

"After the project was cancelled the engine design was sold to Leyland Australia who altered it in detail and planned even bigger capacity versions."

Elsewhere, he says "The Leyland P76, made in Australia, used a 4.4-litre version of the Rover V8 engine originally developed for the Rover P8 saloon."
 
Well I'm afraid Hardcastle is wrong! This came from the Rover engine team who did the V8 in the first place along with Rover senior engineering management via James Taylor. It was always considered by Rover that the bore on the 3.5 was the sensible maximum for that bore spacing, something borne out by the problems Rover had with liners when they eventually upped the bore for the 3.9/4.2/4.0/4.6. So the higher capacity version was always going to have stretched bore centers. The error made in installing the line was an inability to cope with this, the boring machines were fixed in such a way that they couldn't easily be spread.

Thus, at roughly the same time, the 4.4 set sail for Australia, where there was going to be a new engine line anyway, so it wasn't an issue to alter the bore spacings, and the 3.5 was developed into the 3.9 for the P8 and subsequently the Range Rover. Remember that the P8 styling bucks all read Rover 4000, not Rover 4400.

Some of the confusion undoubtedly stems from some of the P8 engineering prototypes running the Australian 4.4 as aprt of Rover's development of it. I'm still unclear exactly what Leyland Australia contributed to it that caused them to be so robust in describing it as an Austarlian developed engine. Clearly they did the development for production, but that shouldn't have affected the design and performance of the engine at all noticeably. The only thing I can think of that looks non Rover on it are the "mushroom" pillars suppotring the rockers - I can't imagine Rover ever sanctioning that.

Again at roughly the same time, the P10 was in preparation. This was a BL board initiated project, who were concerned that they were getting a top end heavy model line up and wanted something to tackle the Granada head on. You could argue that they should have asked for a new Austin Westminster, but BMC wasn't flavour of the month, they'd just proved decisevely that they couldn't manage the task care of the Land Crab based Austin 3 ltr! Anyway, Rover's response was to take a P8 floorpan and adapt it for much simplified suspension. Plus they set about a new Rover 4 cylinder. This carried the capacity and bore spacing of the old P6 2.2 engine but was slanted over and had DOHC and 16V which together with individual throttle body injection gave 160 bhp. When you look at SD1 today, which is P10 in bodyshell and suspension but not in trim or quality or engines, the strange Spen King pivoted axle and that DOHC engine are hardly what I would have envisaged as a Granada buster! More akin to a new entry level Rover.

The P10 2.2ltr stirkes me as a surprising choice of configuration for a Granada buster unless it was built with half an eye on turning it into a modern V8 for the P8 and Range Rover. So my interpretation of the P8 4.4ltr myth is either confusion over the Australian prototype engines or that they were referring to a stillborn V8 version of the P10 engine. Since all the leaks about P8 came from the very top of Rover in frustration at the cancellation of P8 and at the creation of the Specialist Division, along with very detailed press breifings with normally highly confidential photographs, I'm inclined to believe the latter. With the amount of senior management oversight of what was being said, I don't think they'd have let the press get confused over the Australian engine. And there were definitely very specific reports of the P8 being destined to have a 4.4.

So there you go - no proof that the P8 4.4 was the quad cam engine, but equally, good evidence that it wasn't the Australian engine.

Chris
 
Back
Top