Distributor swap for electronic ignition.

T

tvr_v8

New Member
Hey,
I ordered an Accuspark kit from the UK to convert my P6 over to electronic ignition, unfortunately i didn't check the precise model of my distributor first and now it has turned up it turn out it won't fit mine.

My car has a later Range Rover engine and has a 3LUC8-35D fitted, while the kit is for a 35D8, so basically I have a couple of questions.

I have a spare 35D8 that the Accuspark kit will fit, would it be worthwhile fitting it to this and swapping distributors, and as such are they interchangable and would there be any downside to running a 35D8 with Accuspark pickup rather than a 3LUC8-35D with points?

Secondly, is there any trick to removing the distributor on these? Last one i tried to pull when i dismantled the red car was stuck firm and wouldn't come out so i ended up leaving it in the cars carcas. Should they just pull out once unbolted?

Finally, is there a known kit for the 3LUC8-35D that would be worth going for instead? Accuspark don't seem to do one but if there is one of the other similar kits at a similar price i could order one of those instead.

Cheers,

Al
 
tvr_v8 wrote,...
My car has a later Range Rover engine and has a 3LUC8-35D fitted
Click to expand...

Hello Al,

I am not sure about the distributor number that you have listed there. The Lucas distributors fitted to Rover V8 engines were one of...35D8, 35DE8, 35DM8 and 35DLM8.

Which timing cover does your engine have, P6 or SD1? Range Rover timing covers accept a totally different water pump which by its design once fitted with the appropriate viscous coupling and fan won't fit within the P6 engine space available.

Ron.
 
Ron has asked the key question. SD1 timing covers are superficially similar to P6'/P5 ones, but they have a higher capacity, = longer, oil pump and crucially the distributor drive is the other way round. P6/P5 have a male tongue engaging in a female slot in the drive and SD1 vice versa. (or the other way round - I can't remember which goes with which!). However, if it is an SD1 distributor, you'd expect it to be the early (and unreliable) SD1 electronic variant? 35DLM8 from memory.

The other possibilty is that you have a Range Rover distributor to go with a Range Rover engine. My recollection is that early Range Rover Classics had a significantly detuned and low compression version of the engine. 135BHP vs 152 BHP. Logically this would have required a different distributor with different mechanical and vacuum advance which would generate a different distributor number. I presume also that the Range Rover would have had a transition to the SD1 front cover - with the same consequential alteration to the drive tongue of the distributor - at the same time as the SD1 was launched. You never know, you might even find you're actually running a 3.9 or 4.2!

What you clearly don't have is the later Range Rover front end. I think these came in with the P38 Range Rover, after the SD1 had ceased production. Sometimes known generically as the Serpentine front end (although that strictly only applies to Thor engines, I think). If your engine came from such a vehicle it won't be 3.5 but 4.0 or 4.6 and cross bolted.

So I'm afraid a bit of research is needed. First off you need to know the engine number. Then find a Range Rover expert who can translate this to engine type and year of production. You'll then be able to work out what distributor you should have! From that work back to what kit you need.

In summary, there are three basic distributor types - P5/P6/early RR, SD1 electronic and finally later (SD1 type) RR distributors with points. Each will have a variety of numbers according to what distributor advance characteristic it has, dependant on capacity and compression ratio of the engine it is intended for.

My best guess is that you have a later Range Rover Classic points distributor with the SD1 type tongue drive.

I'm definitely not an expert in this field so detail of the above could be wrong - but the overall plot should be OK!

Assuming that the distributor and front cover were original to your engine (ie it isn't a conversion from a 4.0 or 4.6 P38 engine), then you can't sensibly change the distributor. You do actually need the kit to convert that particular distributor.

That didn't give you the answer you were hoping for, did it?!

Chris
 
chrisyork said:
R have a male tongue engaging in a female slot in the drive and SD1 vice versa. (or the other way round - I can't remember which goes with which!)
Click to expand...

:LOL: I have a filthy mind.

Aren't you glad that I didn't buy that dissy off you now Al?

If you get stuck, I know of a really good distributor guy over in Coburg I think.
 
Will pull the distributor out next week and have a proper look at it after the run on Sunday i want to take it along to.

Some more investigation into exactly what the engine is is required methinks but i am 99% sure it is early range rover 3.5 with a 9.25:1 compression ratio marked on it.

Now - question - how to set the points gap back again properly? There is no dwell screw on mine. Am I right in that to set it i rotate the engine so it's at the furthest out point of one of the lobes and adjust the points positioning till the gap between the arm and pad of the points themselves (on mine the top right of the points when fitted if looking down into the distributor) is 0.015, and then screw the points in place? Anything more to it than that? Seems like a simple one but it's times like this that it really reminds me how used to electronic ignition and fuel injection i really am so working on a carb fueled car with points can be a learning experience.
 
I don't think early Range Rovers had such a high cr as that, they were a lot lower, in the low 8's IIRC (8.13:1?)

And if you have a points distributor they all had a dwell adjuster on the outside, there wasn't an alternative.
 
tvr_v8 said:
Some more investigation into exactly what the engine is is required methinks but i am 99% sure it is early range rover 3.5 with a 9.25:1 compression ratio marked on.


Is the cr stamped on all engines, if so where cheers Mick
Click to expand...
 
happy days said:
Is the cr stamped on all engines, if so where cheers Mick
Click to expand...

Yes, next to the engine number, which is on the shoulder of the block behind the N/S head on early engines, and on the top of the block next to the dipstick tube on later ones.
 
harveyp6 wrote,...
I don't think early Range Rovers had such a high cr as that, they were a lot lower, in the low 8's IIRC (8.13:1?)
Click to expand...

Between 1970 and 1983 which would be in the early years, Range Rover engines came in both low compression and high compression versions. The low compression 8.13 : 1 and 8.25 : 1 and the high compression 9.35 : 1.

Australia did receive the 8.13 : 1 versions, as for the other two, that will remain to be seen.

Ron.
 
The plot thickens.... Got the camera down the side of the block to snap the markings for the compression ratio, what's stamped on there is emmmmmmmmm, interesting, to say the least. Think we can safely say my compression ratio could be anything between 8.25:1 and 9.35:1.... Wasn't able to see the 9.35 stamping from above, only when the camera stuck down there but I'm not sure quite what to make of it.

86af958d.jpg


And definitely no dwell screw on the side of my distributor.... Wondering if bizarrely it was originally electronic and has been converted back to points at some stage?...

1f1daa40.jpg
 
Hello Al,

Interesting indeed...your engine's compression ratio appears to have been changed, originally from 8.25 : 1 to 9.35 : 1, following a change of pistons. Your engine number suffix looks to have been changed too, as 'B' may once have been a 'C'. The former from what I can see didn't exist as a factory prefix.

The distributor is one from a Range Rover as the location of the vacuum advance module is the give-a-way. Your suggestion that it may once have been electronic and subsequently converted back to points does sound plausible. What we really need though is the number on the side to confirm or otherwise. A bright light and a mirror might be the answer.

Ron.
 
The plot thickens......

Had a hunt around with the degreaser, torch and mirror and the only lettering stamped into the unit is this, which doesn't look like any of the expected Lucas part numbers to me.

1bc2ff66.jpg


Unless my eyes decieve me greatly, that's a Bosch logo stamped in and this is in actual fact a Bosch U-TFU 8...

Now where on earth did that come from I wonder?
 
A Bosch distributor,...now that is different... :shock: Looking closely you can also see the same symbol on the rotor and 'Australia' appears there too. The vacuum module is in the same relative location as those fitted to the Lucas distributors found in Range Rovers.

As you have a spare 35D8 and an electronic ignition to go with that one, will you fit and swap the distributors? Will be interesting to see the gear on the bottom of the Bosch distributor. I wonder if there would be a potential problem in fitting the Lucas distributor, given that the Bosch with its drive gear has been engaged with the camshaft gear for possibly quite some time.... :? The distributor gear on the Lucas is made from a Bronze alloy so it is my undertanding, while the camshaft gear is steel.

chrisyork wrote,...
think it becomes even more essential to link that engine no to a specific model.
Click to expand...

Hello Chris,

The 355XXXX1 engine numbers had suffix C, D or E and had a CR of 8.25 : 1, being fitted to Range Rovers from 1970 till 1983. There was also a 355XXXX1 F which had an 8.13 : 1 CR but Al's appears to have originally been an 8.25 : 1 which has been changed to a 9.35 : 1 which originally had 11DXXXX1A engine numbers from 1970 till 1983. There were no engines with a 'B' suffix, hence when Al's changed from the original LC to a HC engine, a new suffix was introduced while possibly keeping the whole of the original number. A one off perhaps... :?

Ron.
 
Mmmm. That doesn't really help. What I was hoping for was that someone would know a changeover date between the P6 type front cover and SD1 type front cover for the Range Rover. Clearly at 1970 it would have been P6 and at 1983 it would have been SD1? Thus tvr_v8 would be able to work out which type of drive tongue his distributor would need. At least we now know it's a 3.5 and ex Range Rover! We also need to know which heads and cam it has - SD1 heads would need a different advance curve to P6 type heads - and the piston change complicates matters too.

I do have an idea though. If it has an SD1 type front cover it will take a different type of oil filter, because the thread for the filter is different between the two front covers. If tvr_v8 can tell us what filter the engine is currently running we ought to be able to predict the appropriate distributor type.

Once that is known we can reliably predict which type of distributor to use/buy, but not the required advance curve or vacuum unit. It might be a good idea at that stage to ship car and distributor to a rolling road for them to establish the ideal advance curve for that particular combination of pistons, heads and cam! I don't know whether the pockets will reach that deep though? Also, if you have any ambitions to change the engine in any way - eg use K&N type filters liike I did on Lucky, fit a better exhaust manifold or system etc etc, it would be as well to do those first. Otherwise all the rolling road work will need doing again later.

Chris
 
chrisyork wrote,...
What I was hoping for was that someone would know a changeover date between the P6 type front cover and SD1 type front cover for the Range Rover. Clearly at 1970 it would have been P6 and at 1983 it would have been SD1?
Click to expand...

Hello Chris,

The change over date for the larger capacity oil pump was circa 1976, but that won't really help as Range Rover timing covers were of a different design to those fitted to Rover cars.

If it has an SD1 type front cover it will take a different type of oil filter, because the thread for the filter is different between the two front covers. If tvr_v8 can tell us what filter the engine is currently running we ought to be able to predict the appropriate distributor type.
Click to expand...

Timing covers and oil pump front covers can be mixed, as an example I run an SD1 timing cover with the larger capacity oil pump gears, but I use a P6 oil pump front cover with the larger diameter spigot. I would imagine though that when the Range Rover engine destined for Al's car was being prepared, its original Range Rover timing cover was removed and either a P6 or SD1 timing cover complete with the affixed oil pump front cover was subsequently made available.

Nothing like a good mystery!

Ron.
 
Yep, sounds like my engine has been built up from a combination of bits in that case. The previous owner mentioned it was running a different cam but it is now sounding like there have been more extensive modifications if the compression ratio has been upped with swapped pistons etc. Perfectly possible more has been done to it at the same time too if that sort of work has genuinely been done so could really be anything in there.

Having said that being a natural cynic with such things I personally wouldn't be counting 100% on anything having been done beyond stamping the lettering in.. :)

Foosty has however always has felt quite lively and the exhaust manifolds are a later non standard addition indicating some money has been spent on upgrades so I'm not as suspicious that work of that nature has been carried out on it as I would normally be.

Oh, and the oil filter is one of the little Z160s.

I think for the moment I'll be sticking with the points if it's not going to be as simple as the little Accuspark kit, I may pull the distributor out for a nosey in the not too distant future but sounding like it's not going to be as straightforward as just swapping the 35D8 in as I wouldn't be surprised if the one in there at the moment has also been modified in some way.

Rolling road could be good, there are a couple near here that aren't overly expensive, I never like the stress they put on the car though so will have a think about that one. Would be good to know what sort of power is being produced to see if i am a cynical realist or just realistically a cynic.. :)

Cheers,

Al
 
tvr_v8 wrote,...
the oil filter is one of the little Z160s
Click to expand...

Hello Al,

The Ryco Z160 fits the P6 oil pump front cover with the larger diameter spigot, so the timing cover is thus more likely a P6 issue too.

Is the engine fitted with extractors Al? You don't happen to have any pics do you..? :)

Ron.
 
SydneyRoverP6B said:
Is the engine fitted with extractors Al? You don't happen to have any pics do you..? :)
Click to expand...

Now there's an Aussieism I've never really fully figured out Ron, what's the destinction between exhaust manifolds and extractors or are they one in the same? I hadn't heard that term before until we emigrated.

Here's a couple of pics of what's on my car, I believe these are aftermarket as they appear larger diameter and a different design from the ones that came off the red car I dismantled and have been white at one stage. Obviously in light of the rest of the findings from this thread that may not turn out to be the case but you can hopefully confirm either way.. :)

Cheers,

Al

b2cac7f1.jpg


1c527f35.jpg
 
Al,
The front cover off the Opel/Vauxhall Commodore V6 should bolt straight on and has the uprated capacity oil pump. Don't know if there was a Holden edition of it, though.
Dissy etc should all be as normal.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top