EccentricRichard
New Member
DaveHerns said:
I'd have thought the first thing anyone looking to race/rally a P6 would do other than stiffening the base unit would be to whip out the diff and stick in a stronger limited-slip diff...
(Budget) Historic Rally Car Project
- Thread starter Kman1600
- Start date
I'd have thought the first thing anyone looking to race/rally a P6 would do other than stiffening the base unit would be to whip out the diff and stick in a stronger limited-slip diff...
Kman1600
Member
EccentricRichard said:
Hi,
Without doubt a stronger LSD is high on a wish list but the price is high. When competing in Motorsport with limited resources you find you must have balance. This project has been conducted on a fairly tight financial budget (certainly not zero but moderate) and equally significant on a time budget as well, life is full of other priorities.
We have tried to focus mainly on a smiles per ££££ as our guide rather than be terribly results lead, although good results certainly add to the smiles
We have tried to be very sensible about where the money has been spent, reliability first, nothing depresses more than a non-finish. At the end of each of the 2 events so far we have gone through a pretty huge “need to improve the ….” list but once we’ve calmed down and revisited the goal we find ourselves more realistic.As Gavin keeps pointing out to me it’s much better to be out there doing than planning and developing and he’s right. If we decided that we weren’t going to compete until we had, an LSD, 20% more power, 10% less weight, roll cage, fancy seats, lovely paint, matching outfits, etc…. we’d never be out, although it might make better reading on here. Scope slip (adding more and more improvements as you go along) is the death of many a project, eventually the scope out strips the enthusiasm and the project dies and everything goes on e-bay or the likes.
Get it finished, get it out there and give it a slash!!!!
Tim
GrimV8
Active Member
As Richarduk said above, I used to have a slide everywhere attitude when younger (hasn't really gone away :roll: ) and I used to run 2000 rims on the back of my S with hard cheap tyres to get away from the under steer issue. The design team spoke to my Dad about it who were never happy with the rear end being as good as it was showing up the front, they wanted more balance but it got left as it did the job required. Funny as now the factories dial in understeer for the muppets amongst us on purpose
Yes I know running smaller tyres at the back is not proper, but it was fun at the time
Yes I know running smaller tyres at the back is not proper, but it was fun at the time
Been there done that and agree wholeheartedly with the remedy!
But you are bound to break a diff output flange at some stage. When you do I can probably let a couple go to a good cause(!). In the meantime I'd recommend sourcing a spare V8 diff and also a spare early 2000 one complete with Dunlop brake set up. The issue of fitting the Dunlop brakes to the V8 diff so you have an independant handbrake can come later...
Chris
Kman1600
Member
Hi,
Yes we need to source a spare V8 diff even if all it does is reduce the likelihood of needing it!!! We have very few spares actually
I like the Dunlop brake solution but the rarity of the parts does concern me slightly, we do have some other thoughts which we are looking into now.
Thanks
Tim
Yes we need to source a spare V8 diff even if all it does is reduce the likelihood of needing it!!! We have very few spares actually
I like the Dunlop brake solution but the rarity of the parts does concern me slightly, we do have some other thoughts which we are looking into now.
Thanks
Tim
Tim - The only rare bit with the Dunlop brakes is the bracket onto the diff. All the cylinders and brake mechanism etc are contemporary Jag and hence extremely available and repairable. Even the discs are pretty common! Plus ready availability of different grade pads and you can even go up a size on the brake cylinders to take advantage of bigger tyres and better front brakes!
Chris
Chris
Kman1600
Member
Hi All,
Very quick post as I’ll still recovering from the lack of sleep and exertion from the weekend. Great event in and around Dublin and the P6 did it’s now traditional job of being reliable, smooth and surprisingly quick and nimble. I’m sure I’ll be able to some open source pics. at some point to post directly on here but for the moment you can check out:
http://public.fotki.com/speedy/2010-events/
There are lots of pics. of both us and all the other competitors on there!!! IMRC retro rally is what you’re looking for.
I will post a link to the results when they become available, in summary we finished about half way up class (very competitive class full on Mk.1 escorts etc…) and about half way up the complete field. This is about were we should be!!! If we had a very early V8 i.e. pre end of Dec 68, we’d be in a much less competitive class.
More later but could do with a snooze right about now!!!
Tim
Very quick post as I’ll still recovering from the lack of sleep and exertion from the weekend. Great event in and around Dublin and the P6 did it’s now traditional job of being reliable, smooth and surprisingly quick and nimble. I’m sure I’ll be able to some open source pics. at some point to post directly on here but for the moment you can check out:
http://public.fotki.com/speedy/2010-events/
There are lots of pics. of both us and all the other competitors on there!!! IMRC retro rally is what you’re looking for.
I will post a link to the results when they become available, in summary we finished about half way up class (very competitive class full on Mk.1 escorts etc…) and about half way up the complete field. This is about were we should be!!! If we had a very early V8 i.e. pre end of Dec 68, we’d be in a much less competitive class.
More later but could do with a snooze right about now!!!
Tim
Tch Tch, war wound on the drivers side.. I was always taught they had to be on the navigators side! How else is the poor underemployed chap to get his kicks?
Terrific photos and looks really good fun!
What's the small red fibreglass coupe? Looks vaguely like a Turner?
Chris
Terrific photos and looks really good fun!
What's the small red fibreglass coupe? Looks vaguely like a Turner?
Chris
Kman1600
Member
chrisyork said:
Hi Chris,
Yes small war wound on the driverside, done during one of the longer off road (mud) tests, just slipped into to rocks, navigator wasn't even in the car at the time. As the car is part owned by him there were some quite moments after that little mishap.
The red fibreglass coupe looking rather like a Turner is indeed just that a very early Turner so well spotted, fantastic little thing, very sore on half shafts, he carries a spare and can now change them in about the same time as we can change a back wheel!!!
I truly fantastic event!!!
Last years event also appears on youtube (although I didn’t compete last year so don’t expect to see any P6s), search for IMRC Retro Rally or something like that, I have my fingers crossed this years event also does.
Thanks
Tim
a schollfreind of mine has (or had) the moulds for the Turner Mk II. When I wsa much younger we made a very lightweight open topper by missing out everything we could think of - like most of the fibreglass, screen, doors, floor - you get the idea. Overdid it a bit on the fibreglass - every time we went over a bump there was a loud crack and another one appeared in the shell!
Chris
Chris
Kman1600
Member
Hi,
I’ve finally got a pic from the weekends activity that isn’t copy righted, the pictures from the previous link are way better
There is also a short video on youtube that doesn’t actually show my finest hour but it does give some idea of what we were trying to do The organising club posted a lot of youtube clips after last years event I still hope that there will be some of this years event posted at some point. A search for IMRC rally should get you to what’s there.
http://www.youtube.com/user/gargoreg
Tim
I’ve finally got a pic from the weekends activity that isn’t copy righted, the pictures from the previous link are way better
There is also a short video on youtube that doesn’t actually show my finest hour but it does give some idea of what we were trying to do
The organising club posted a lot of youtube clips after last years event I still hope that there will be some of this years event posted at some point. A search for IMRC rally should get you to what’s there.http://www.youtube.com/user/gargoreg
Tim
Attachments
Kman1600
Member
Hi All,
Time for another chapter on project Rover
29 – 31st Oct saw us compete in the last round of the Irish Retro Rally challenge, as with a lot of things in life there were some ups and there were some downs. On a positive note we managed 3rd in class which was good as it meant trophies!!! However this class success was largely due to the organisers taking the slightly courageous and slight controversial step of lumping all the MK.1 Escorts into their own class. Some of these MK.1 Escorts are rather highly developed and would in fact run very well up the order in a modern stage rally. It’s therefore a stance that I applauded them for and if the truth be told there really wasn’t any meaningful objections raised by an of them. So left in our class (younger, large saloons) was a Datsun 100A and an Opel Kadet (Irish version of the Vauxhall Chevette) both highly developed Autotest cars in very experienced hands, we finished behind these guys but ahead of a Series 11A Landrover, a BMW 2002 and a fire breathing Volvo 144. To be fair the 144 crash out on a test but we were trading times with him before that so it was going to be close.
We remain a tad rusty and the navigation and regularity sections but showed some signs of what could be achieved with a little more practice, near cleaning a few sections toward the end, but we made too many mistakes early on. Test wise the event suited the big car better than the last 2 rounds of the championship, tests were all driven blind with the navigator in the car shouting directions. They were more open and longer than on other events and contained a couple of real special sections!!! One through the old Maze Prison complex in the dead of night, very spooky given that it was Halloween and one round the Kirkstown race circuit., both of these were run twice. We acquitted ourselves pretty well in the Maze with mid field times but it was the longer Kirkstown test (5 miles in total) that really suited us. On the second run through we posted the 4 fastest time of the day, quite a feet in a pretty standard P6 against all those Escorts, 2002’s, Alfas, Midgets, Mini Cooper S’s etc…. I was well chuffed with that result. I was certainly helped by my expert navigator who knows Kirkstown race circuit very very well but still the car needed to cover the ground and it did it superbly.
The poor car is looking a little sad at the moment, what with the battle scares from the off on the previous IMRC event still evident and a few new ones from this event!!! Passenger front door heavily dented by a non-competitor while waiting for the start!!! and a wee woops in a forest during this event, trees are very hard!!! So it’s back to the workshop for the winter lay-off so time to sort a few things on the ever growing list!!! Gearbox rebuild, Suspension removal clean inspect and replace, body work improvements, another think about rear brakes, etc…… Then back stronger and fitter for next year. We only did 3 out of the 4 events this year, we’d plan on doing them all next year, funding permitting, building, running and competiting in a car like this is not cheap and even considering we are on a tight budget costs would still make your eyes water!!!
Pics are hard to find on the web but I’ve attached a couple from the Kirkstown test, as always more will surface as time goes by and when I get them I’ll post them.
Bye for now,
Tim
Time for another chapter on project Rover
29 – 31st Oct saw us compete in the last round of the Irish Retro Rally challenge, as with a lot of things in life there were some ups and there were some downs. On a positive note we managed 3rd in class which was good as it meant trophies!!! However this class success was largely due to the organisers taking the slightly courageous and slight controversial step of lumping all the MK.1 Escorts into their own class. Some of these MK.1 Escorts are rather highly developed and would in fact run very well up the order in a modern stage rally. It’s therefore a stance that I applauded them for and if the truth be told there really wasn’t any meaningful objections raised by an of them. So left in our class (younger, large saloons) was a Datsun 100A and an Opel Kadet (Irish version of the Vauxhall Chevette) both highly developed Autotest cars in very experienced hands, we finished behind these guys but ahead of a Series 11A Landrover, a BMW 2002 and a fire breathing Volvo 144. To be fair the 144 crash out on a test but we were trading times with him before that so it was going to be close.
We remain a tad rusty and the navigation and regularity sections but showed some signs of what could be achieved with a little more practice, near cleaning a few sections toward the end, but we made too many mistakes early on. Test wise the event suited the big car better than the last 2 rounds of the championship, tests were all driven blind with the navigator in the car shouting directions. They were more open and longer than on other events and contained a couple of real special sections!!! One through the old Maze Prison complex in the dead of night, very spooky given that it was Halloween and one round the Kirkstown race circuit., both of these were run twice. We acquitted ourselves pretty well in the Maze with mid field times but it was the longer Kirkstown test (5 miles in total) that really suited us. On the second run through we posted the 4 fastest time of the day, quite a feet in a pretty standard P6 against all those Escorts, 2002’s, Alfas, Midgets, Mini Cooper S’s etc…. I was well chuffed with that result. I was certainly helped by my expert navigator who knows Kirkstown race circuit very very well but still the car needed to cover the ground and it did it superbly.
The poor car is looking a little sad at the moment, what with the battle scares from the off on the previous IMRC event still evident and a few new ones from this event!!! Passenger front door heavily dented by a non-competitor while waiting for the start!!! and a wee woops in a forest during this event, trees are very hard!!! So it’s back to the workshop for the winter lay-off so time to sort a few things on the ever growing list!!! Gearbox rebuild, Suspension removal clean inspect and replace, body work improvements, another think about rear brakes, etc…… Then back stronger and fitter for next year. We only did 3 out of the 4 events this year, we’d plan on doing them all next year, funding permitting, building, running and competiting in a car like this is not cheap and even considering we are on a tight budget costs would still make your eyes water!!!
Pics are hard to find on the web but I’ve attached a couple from the Kirkstown test, as always more will surface as time goes by and when I get them I’ll post them.
Bye for now,
Tim
Attachments
Kman1600
Member
Hi All,
There is a short video on youtube of one of the later tests on the Retro, we're about 6mins in. Car and us were quite tired by this point so not our finest performance but gives you an idea of what goes on!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFfPZu5Yhy0
Tim
There is a short video on youtube of one of the later tests on the Retro, we're about 6mins in. Car and us were quite tired by this point so not our finest performance but gives you an idea of what goes on!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFfPZu5Yhy0
Tim
Kman1600
Member
Hi,
Car already has 25mm front ABR, 50% uprated springs, Gas adjustable dampers, Poly-bushes, Australian kit etc…. so it’s a lot stiffer than standard. I never drove the car standard as it was a non-runner when we started the project so I’ve no idea what it would be like without all this stuff but I’d guess the roll would have been shocking.
The handling is actually probably the best part of the car, this is born out by our times on longer more open tests. We are also by far the best over bumpy sections, though water splashes etc…. the car glides over the rough stuff, we don’t even run with a sump guard as there appears to be no need!!! The type of test shown on youtube really is the least suitable for us, Tarmac surface so its hard to break traction and drift the car, tight round cones etc…. thankfully the tight turning circle helps. I have a video at home of us on a loose test, that suits us better, I’ll see if I can post that on youtube.
I wish someone had a video of our second Kirkstown run, that was more like our finish hour, 4 fastest time of the day, made me smile anyway!!!!
Tim
Car already has 25mm front ABR, 50% uprated springs, Gas adjustable dampers, Poly-bushes, Australian kit etc…. so it’s a lot stiffer than standard. I never drove the car standard as it was a non-runner when we started the project so I’ve no idea what it would be like without all this stuff but I’d guess the roll would have been shocking.
The handling is actually probably the best part of the car, this is born out by our times on longer more open tests. We are also by far the best over bumpy sections, though water splashes etc…. the car glides over the rough stuff, we don’t even run with a sump guard as there appears to be no need!!! The type of test shown on youtube really is the least suitable for us, Tarmac surface so its hard to break traction and drift the car, tight round cones etc…. thankfully the tight turning circle helps. I have a video at home of us on a loose test, that suits us better, I’ll see if I can post that on youtube.
I wish someone had a video of our second Kirkstown run, that was more like our finish hour, 4 fastest time of the day, made me smile anyway!!!!
Tim
david roxburgh
New Member
The P6 makes a great rally car. It's tough and you can cheaply replace damaged bodywork if (when) you hit something. Navigators like them because they're comfortable, just make sure you fit a harness for him/her or they will roll about in the seat when you corner vigorously. Fit a map reading light too for the night stages. Although they're not the speediest on autotests, especially the Irish versions where lots of cars are modified, there are some tricks; the P6 has better suspension than most so you have an advantage if the ground is rough (good idea to fit some sort of home made sump guard); the steering lock is also better than most and you can steer round corners even if it's a bit hard to slide the back out. If you are doing more welding, the suspension mounting points can all be beefed up, but they were generally pretty strong originally so you can get away with just checking there is no rot. Brighter bulbs in the speedo will help you on night regularities, often they're a bit dim. There aren't enough P6's rallying, which is a shame given their history. Good luck!