Additional retention for Lower Ball Joints

T

tvr_v8

New Member
Hey,
Following my ball joint incident a while back i am now well and trully paranoid about making sure regardless of what else happens my lower ball joints never have the chance of coming out of the pillar ever again.

As such I am obviously taking all possible precautions to make sure the replacements joints are correct and fitting of them is done properly. I was wondering however about options to give a little extra insurance to reduce the chance of them shifting even further.

What would the view be on putting 4 reasonably small welds around the outside of each joint after the circlip has gone on, to not just have them fully pressed into the pillar but also welded in too?...

Obviously this would mean that if (when) they have to be replaced again in future these welds would need to be ground down and removed to allow the joint to be removed, but after one failure and having experienced the results it's additional time that I would probably be willing to spend in order to remove the risk of it ever happening again.

Thoughts appreciated.

Thanks,

Al
 
Al I would not worry about it, after all your failure was purely due to a balls up, how many failures has any one heard of out of the huge number of cars produced. Furthur more your welding may have other unknown and unforseen consequences....personally I wouldn't go there.

Graeme
 
Hello Al,

I am going to second Graeme's view. Adding welds which would require heating the actual swivel pillar, may well see the steel's crystalline structure become brittle, especially if the appropriate most welding operations were not followed.

I can certainly understand your concerns, but on a positive note the frequency of such occuring is next to zero, and when it has happended, the mechanic who performed the work is at fault, not the design.

When the concept of the front suspension was on the drawing board, I expect the designing Engineers calculated, probably using vectors, all the various forces and their components that the design might possibly encounter. With such information, the security of the bottom ball joint by its very design was achieved. The only problem occurs when those desiring an early mark file off all the splines.... :shock:
The ball joints and the diameter of the socket in the swivel pillar will all vary within the bounds stipulated by the original design, so even with a ball joint at the minimum size and a socket at the upper size, the force required to complete the installation would still be greater than the dislodging forces that the joint will encounter during use.

As such, the joint remains within the swivel pillar just as the Engineer who originally designed it and who did all the mathematics to prove that it would.

So provided the mechanics who install the joints do not file off the splines, the joints will be residing there till the cows come home... :)

Ron.
 
I'd be more inclined to use an industrial adhesive - perhaps Quattro can recommend a suitable one? Lucky has his anti roll bar secured this way and I know of a Triumph Spitfire with the panels secured this way alone!

Can well understand the motivation though!

Chris
 
chrisyork said:
I'd be more inclined to use an industrial adhesive - perhaps Quattro can recommend a suitable one? Lucky has his anti roll bar secured this way and I know of a Triumph Spitfire with the panels secured this way alone!

Can well understand the motivation though!

Chris
Click to expand...

And then there is the late model Jags where all the body panels are glued!! not to mention many commercila planes now doing the same. However I wouldnt bother with the Rover pillar.

Graeme
 
chrisyork said:
I'd be more inclined to use an industrial adhesive - perhaps Quattro can recommend a suitable one? Lucky has his anti roll bar secured this way and I know of a Triumph Spitfire with the panels secured this way alone!

Can well understand the motivation though!

Chris
Click to expand...

No, I wouldn't bond it in.

They are a real pig to get out without an adhesive. The leg would have to deemed a replaceable item if you glued in it because it would never let go.

I agree with Graeme and Ron. The car didn't let you down (quite literally) the muckanic did.

Richard
 
Never had any come out we've fitted and that's over many years :wink:

Pretend it never happened and don't think about it :D
 
Fit the joint into the leg yourself. Once you see just how much effert it takes to get them in the first place you'll realise that they're never going to work loose and fall out.
 
harveyp6 said:
Fit the joint into the leg yourself. Once you see just how much effert it takes to get them in the first place you'll realise that they're never going to work loose and fall out.
Click to expand...

I agree. Having just done one on my own car last month I can testify to how much effort it takes to get it all the way home. I checked mine after reading your post and there's no sign of any movement since fitting.

Dave
 
Thanks guys, you're right - I know fine well the cause of the failure so need to put it behind me and trust that with the replacements done properly with no grinding and stamping of the joint that all will be fine and as it was designed to be without additional mods.

It's one of those situations where I know the only way I will be 100% happy with the fitting is if i either do it myself or get to watch right the way through the process to make sure no bodges are done and they are pressed all the way in.

Thinking given the difficulty usually experienced getting them in then the later is the way to go.

Cheers,

Al
 
I'm with the crew that says don't glue them, but if you insist, then one of the Loctite products will do it fine, but you will be ever so sorry you did if you want to remove them one day.
 
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