1972 3500S P6B Power Steering Installation

#1
I have studied the forum carefully for all the threads on power steering including this one Manual to Power Steering and have obtained the majority of parts to convert to power steering however I have a number of questions that are currently unanswered and would like to know if anyone can help out?

Part number# 572826 - 3/8" UNF special nut. What function does it have, from the drawing I can see that the PS box casting hole size much larger and there is a tab washer fitted, why not just place a spacer/bush in there? is there some movement expected?


Manual steering stops- Should I remove them or just leave them? If so how does the PS system know when to stop?

#562280 - Packing plate for reservoir. Would anyone have dimension of one and the position of the holes to drill, or even a buckshee plate going spare as mine is missing?


On the pump mounting bracket the drawing partially shows #90611503 a distance piece. Again would anyone have dimension of this or a photo of the part in order to make it up?


Also still looking for advice on a ball joint extractor #565446 for the track rods as I can see it needs to have a wide jaw. Are there any particular makes I should obtain?
 

mrtask

Well-Known Member
#2
The 'special nut', if I remember right, was fiddly to tighten onto the equally special stud with a thread at each end. It is thin so you can fumble it into place. I reckon what made both the nut and the stud special is that, if you lose either, they're not easy to obtain. At least that was the case for me over here in Berlin.
Doesn't help you much, sorry.
Keep the steering stops, as you say, how else would the power steering "know when to stop"?
606557 - packing plates. You need enough of these to make sure the pump is level with the idler opposite.
Nothing special about plate 562280. Fairly chunky, three holes in it, you could cut the diagonal corners but you don't need to. Use the bracket on the fluid reservoir as a guide to mark the positions to drill the holes, make your own, if nobody here has a spare.
I do, but I won't be over at my lock-up for a few weeks, my car is out of action pending wrenching at the moment.
If you haven't sourced one or can't be bothered to make your own I'll dig my spare out for you at the beginning of July when I'm next over at my spares trove! Assuming I can find it. Last box at the very back behind everything else syndrome usually applies.
 

harveyp6

Well-Known Member
#3
The special nut locates the box to stop it moving around, which is more likely because of the power assistance. I used to use an exhaust manifold stut. I don't have the special nut but I do have the dimensions if you want to get one made.

The spacer on the pump bracket is about 1/8" thick and ISTR it comes above the pump bracket and has a clip on it to hold one of the hoses.

The strengthener for the reservoir is easy enough to make as said above, and you can use it as a template to drill the holes in the inner wing.
 
#4
The 'special nut', if I remember right, was fiddly to tighten onto the equally special stud with a thread at each end. It is thin so you can fumble it into place. I reckon what made both the nut and the stud special is that, if you lose either, they're not easy to obtain. At least that was the case for me over here in Berlin.
Doesn't help you much, sorry.
Keep the steering stops, as you say, how else would the power steering "know when to stop"?
606557 - packing plates. You need enough of these to make sure the pump is level with the idler opposite.
Nothing special about plate 562280. Fairly chunky, three holes in it, you could cut the diagonal corners but you don't need to. Use the bracket on the fluid reservoir as a guide to mark the positions to drill the holes, make your own, if nobody here has a spare.
I do, but I won't be over at my lock-up for a few weeks, my car is out of action pending wrenching at the moment.
If you haven't sourced one or can't be bothered to make your own I'll dig my spare out for you at the beginning of July when I'm next over at my spares trove! Assuming I can find it. Last box at the very back behind everything else syndrome usually applies.
The PS box still has the shims on the bottom which are held in by hammered in rivets so hopefully there is enough of them to align up with the opposite idler.

I was also trying to find the relative position of the holes for plate 562280 on the inner wing as are there are no marking to go by, concerned that the reservoir is not in the factory position. Thank you for the offer , but don't stress over trying to find a plate in the spares trove, I'll make something to do the job with.
 
#5
The special nut locates the box to stop it moving around, which is more likely because of the power assistance. I used to use an exhaust manifold stut. I don't have the special nut but I do have the dimensions if you want to get one made.

The spacer on the pump bracket is about 1/8" thick and ISTR it comes above the pump bracket and has a clip on it to hold one of the hoses.

The strengthener for the reservoir is easy enough to make as said above, and you can use it as a template to drill the holes in the inner wing.
Funnily enough I have found some Jaguar exhaust studs that will do nicely. For the special nut I could make it up on the lathe if you could give the dimensions. From the drawing its appears to be just a large flat nut, but perhaps there is a step on it to locate into the PS box housing hole so that it cant wobble around?

Still looking for advice on best tool to separate the track rod ends.
 

harveyp6

Well-Known Member
#6
These are the dimensions for the special nut.

3/4" AF on top, 1/4" deep.

3/8" UNF thread.

5/8" high in total.

Bottom (dowel) section 5/8" diameter.

The bottom section of the dowel has the diameter reduced by 1/16" for the bottom 1/4"
 
#7
Following the information supplied by Harvey for the nut I churned out these tonight and the extractor works a treat too. Although I deviated slightly instead of 3/4" A/F on the nut head, I used a A/F 15/16 UNF bolt head and shank as the start for the special nut, also a UNF fine thread on the extractor itself which I believe is better than a coarse thread for this purpose.
 
#9
The spacer on the pump bracket is about 1/8" thick and ISTR it comes above the pump bracket and has a clip on it to hold one of the hoses.
I found this photo on forum (hope the owner doesn't mind?) that shows the spacer bracket extends upwards and is not the same as the parts catalogue, but unfortunately it gets cut off at the top, but there appears to be the beginning of a pipe clip of some sort?

 

mrtask

Well-Known Member
#10
Get you and your manufacturing skills! Count me impressed!
That's my pic. Should've painted that crank pulley and the front lifting bracket too, eh!? The exhaust manifolds don't stay as pretty for very long, no matter what the paint manufacturer may claim about the temperature resistance of their special silver paint. New engine mounts nestling under the engine in that pic too. Didn't hold up long either!
Would you like me to try and photograph the bit that is cropped off at the top? It's all back together and in the car so it won't be quite as clear a picture, or from the same angle, but I'm happy to oblige if it helps. I don't know if I got all the clips for the hoses in the right place, but again I can snap some photos of the completed installation if you like.
 
#11
Get you and your manufacturing skills! Count me impressed!
That's my pic. Should've painted that crank pulley and the front lifting bracket too, eh!? The exhaust manifolds don't stay as pretty for very long, no matter what the paint manufacturer may claim about the temperature resistance of their special silver paint. New engine mounts nestling under the engine in that pic too. Didn't hold up long either!
Would you like me to try and photograph the bit that is cropped off at the top? It's all back together and in the car so it won't be quite as clear a picture, or from the same angle, but I'm happy to oblige if it helps. I don't know if I got all the clips for the hoses in the right place, but again I can snap some photos of the completed installation if you like.
Thanks for the feedback. Necessity is the mother of invention as they say, needs must. If a photo is not too much hassle for you then yes please, but I think I can guess from the photo. Would be nice to have something that looks like OE install. Harvey mentioned that the thickness of the spacer plate may be 1/8" (3.175mm), would be great if you could confirm that, as I would like to get the alignment of the belt as close as possible. Does the spacer plate slip down the back of the mounting bracket as I have highlighted in yellow?
 
#12
I have begun overhaul of the power steering pump as the seal at the bearing end has been leaking in the past. I plan on fitting a new bearing and of course seals, however one of the brass bushings (536361 nearest bearing race) has some nasty grooves in it. The shaft itself is in reasonable shape. With there being a bearing race I find myself asking what is the function of the brass bush. The bushes appear not to be available anyway, perhaps could be made?

-With a new Bush would that reduce pressure on the back of the shaft seal to an extent?

-Is that the reason why the seal on the shaft is leaking as although it is slightly worn I can’t see a definite fail point?
 
#13
I have begun overhaul of the power steering pump as the seal at the bearing end has been leaking in the past. I plan on fitting a new bearing and of course seals, however one of the brass bushings (536361 nearest bearing race) has some nasty grooves in it. The shaft itself is in reasonable shape. With there being a bearing race I find myself asking what is the function of the brass bush. The bushes appear not to be available anyway, perhaps could be made?

-With a new Bush would that reduce pressure on the back of the shaft seal to an extent?

-Is that the reason why the seal on the shaft is leaking as although it is slightly worn I can’t see a definite fail point?
I decided to replace the bushing on the power steering pump after I finally tracked it down (536361) to these guys at Flying spares. Its identical although not cheap. Part# CD2827
BUSH (Main shaft) (CD2827)
 
#16
Some questions guys on the fitting of the PS box that I hope you can clarify. I have used the existing shims that came with the PS box, but it is way too high relative to the cabin bulkhead rubber bushing, compared to the manual box I removed which was bang on centre. I was just glad to get the PSB in place, quite a faff and took some time, but it looks like it will be in and out a few times before I get it right.

When I review the Rover parts catalogue it does not show steering stops with the PS Box, however it calls out 2 x packings (90565481), but only one shown at the front of the PSB. Is this the case ? Is the steering limited without steering stops or will it hit the inner arches if not fitted?
What does shimming achieve ? What are you supposed to shim relative too? the Rover workshop manual just mentions ensure fitting of the shims, but without knowing what to shim reference too? Should I use the shims from my manual steering box instead which are few compared to the PSbox shims which have quite a thickness.
 

harveyp6

Well-Known Member
#17
If the lockstops aren't fitted to cars with PAS then the box must have internal stops. The shims are calculated purely on measurements on the box itself, nothing to do with the car. You'll have to check in the WM as it's definitely in there, but off the top of my head I can't remember and don't have a book to hand until tomorrow sometime probably.
 
#18
If the lockstops aren't fitted to cars with PAS then the box must have internal stops. The shims are calculated purely on measurements on the box itself, nothing to do with the car. You'll have to check in the WM as it's definitely in there, but off the top of my head I can't remember and don't have a book to hand until tomorrow sometime probably.
Ah yes found a section in the WM which mentions it, basically from the bottom face of the PSB to the drop arm measurement +/- . I could not understand why shims fitted to the bottom of the PSB, I thought perhaps to align to some reference on the body, but it must be due to drop arm being on a tapered shaft I would guess that dimension would vary between boxes hence the need to shim. I'll check that dimension tomorrow, and also remove the stops and hopefully will get it looking a bit more central to the bulkhead bushing
 

mrtask

Well-Known Member
#19
Lovel, sorry, pics of that bracketry next week. I beg your pardon, I forgot. Sorry to go off topic here, but
PeterZRH, I've gone through two pairs of Britpart engine mounts in six years of driving. They split in two! Found a pair of older new-old-stock Unipart engine mounts in my spares, here's hoping they hold up a bit longer! I found some online from the US for Land Rover off roaders, which are internally linked with metal 'hoops' concealed inside the urethane bush. Look beefier, but in the P6 the V8 remains seated on the sheared mounts when they fail and can't really fall out, I don't think. Hope not to be proven wrong, anyway!
 
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