Wear a Name Tag at Shows! - We know who each other is on here but wa
- Thread starter chrisyork
- Start date
The Rovering Member
Well-Known Member
Well, don't include me in that. For the vast majority, there is no "We" or "Us", as we didn't mis-use the Forum. The people who did are known to the committee & could have been removed without tarring the rest of us with the same brush. You could wait any length of time to reinstate the real-time aspect but no specific length of time will ensure that it doesn't happen again. If/when it does, then you expel the offenders.DaveHerns said:
Nearly all other Forums are real-time. They all have the same risks as this one does & deal with them without resorting to pre-moderating.
Very good debate here,
I guess that the moderators hands are tied to a certain degree in that its probably not a decision that two or three can make alone, however with the power of email and so forth I would think the issue could be resolved fairly quickly. (allthough it is likely that some committee members are not on line)
There is also the issue of how to deal with any future problems, I say ban them after a second warning, but again these things have to be agreed by a panel I suppose. Obviuosly there are rules to all forums, and Im not sure if they would need to be modified to take this ban into account, assuming the club would agree with it anyway.
I feel I should, in one sense voice a short apology for opening a can of worms here, but on the other hand I also feel that its an unecessary penalisation for those who would like to chat live. I would also like to see a members gallery installed, where we can all post our own pics of cars, strange diagrams of boot props and so on (forums wives) you know the sort of thing. ONLY JOKING.
but thats another story, Rome wasnt built in a day.
seriously though, can we possibly have a vote amongst regular forum users on this Mr mods ? and if poss how easily could a change be implemted ?
Don.
I guess that the moderators hands are tied to a certain degree in that its probably not a decision that two or three can make alone, however with the power of email and so forth I would think the issue could be resolved fairly quickly. (allthough it is likely that some committee members are not on line)
There is also the issue of how to deal with any future problems, I say ban them after a second warning, but again these things have to be agreed by a panel I suppose. Obviuosly there are rules to all forums, and Im not sure if they would need to be modified to take this ban into account, assuming the club would agree with it anyway.
I feel I should, in one sense voice a short apology for opening a can of worms here, but on the other hand I also feel that its an unecessary penalisation for those who would like to chat live. I would also like to see a members gallery installed, where we can all post our own pics of cars, strange diagrams of boot props and so on (forums wives) you know the sort of thing. ONLY JOKING.
but thats another story, Rome wasnt built in a day.
seriously though, can we possibly have a vote amongst regular forum users on this Mr mods ? and if poss how easily could a change be implemted ?
Don.
The Rovering Member
Well-Known Member
No apology is necessary in my opinion. Re-visiting the forum has reminded me what a good one it is. Far more active than the P4/5 forums but I think that the forum use is directly related to the survival rate/availability of the particular models so that's no slur against the other club forums, the P4 one being relatively new anyway. This one too, is by far the best laid out of them. Which makes it all the more frustrating having to wait an undetermined amount of time to have your posts posted (albeit fairly quickly for the most part). Especially when you're prone to posting in the early ack-emma, as I am.Don Wyatt said:
I stand by my pre-stated fact that most other open forums post in real-time, despite having the same risks as this one so why should this one be any different. If the club is worried about certain individuals starting to grind certain axes again then pre-ban them. There is no legal obligation to allow any individual access to any particular forum AFAIK.
Unless it's against their Human rights of course. ???
Ive tried to keep quiet on this, but Ive failed!
I dont think that the problems involved more than a handful of people. However, as I understand things - the club can be held legally responsible for any "slanderous" or "defamatory" comment that is posted on this board, even if it is removed fast. (and should club funds be put at risk, should someone start things off again?)
(I use another forum (nothing to do with cars) which is moderated (about living abroad)- and on the few occassions they tried without - you could see why!)
All it would take is a couple of people to ruin everything again for all of us.
Is it really that neccessary to have your post appear instantly? If you see someone you know is on-line you can send them a PM
To be honest - if the choice is between no forum (as in last summer for a long time) and a forum where yopur posts and replies appear usually within an hour or so. I go for the latter
Edited By zebedee37 on 1209625664
I dont think that the problems involved more than a handful of people. However, as I understand things - the club can be held legally responsible for any "slanderous" or "defamatory" comment that is posted on this board, even if it is removed fast. (and should club funds be put at risk, should someone start things off again?)
(I use another forum (nothing to do with cars) which is moderated (about living abroad)- and on the few occassions they tried without - you could see why!)
All it would take is a couple of people to ruin everything again for all of us.
Is it really that neccessary to have your post appear instantly? If you see someone you know is on-line you can send them a PM
To be honest - if the choice is between no forum (as in last summer for a long time) and a forum where yopur posts and replies appear usually within an hour or so. I go for the latter
Edited By zebedee37 on 1209625664
As a moderator myself I am strongly in favour of a real time forum and agree with all the comments made in favour of that. I became a moderator because I care deeply that the forum continues and that seemed to be the only way to get it back up at the time.
I must say I find the legal issue a little surprising. It has been circulated as a reason for the previous demise of the forum for some time without challenge. I don't know, but I suspect, that someone who was a party to the slanging match threatened legal action at the time. Threat of legal action is, however, no guarantee of success! Do we have any legally qualified members on here who could provide an informed opinion? That could help to lay the ghost for good!
Another way of managing the forum that could work, would be to allow posts in real time but retain the moderating system. With moderators logging on to review all the recent posts for; ahem; acceptability.
Chris
I must say I find the legal issue a little surprising. It has been circulated as a reason for the previous demise of the forum for some time without challenge. I don't know, but I suspect, that someone who was a party to the slanging match threatened legal action at the time. Threat of legal action is, however, no guarantee of success! Do we have any legally qualified members on here who could provide an informed opinion? That could help to lay the ghost for good!
Another way of managing the forum that could work, would be to allow posts in real time but retain the moderating system. With moderators logging on to review all the recent posts for; ahem; acceptability.
Chris
The Rovering Member
Well-Known Member
Well, excluding your good self of course Zebedee, that maybe shows the quality of people using that site if they ran into problems as soon as (& every time) they went real-time. Again, the fact is that most forums are instant & I don't think a couple of people would make much difference as you'd ban them from the forum very quickly.zebedee37 said:
It can severely affect the flow of a thread especially if a few people are responding to it & posts can seem out of order if not continually quoting. If someone answers a question immediately with real-time, others know that they needn't go over it again. With the delay you don't know so can end up with a few posts saying practically the same thing & if that often occurs you may find people not bothering to answer at all or worse not visiting the forum in the first place. As far as PM's go thats not really the idea of a forum. You may as well just e-mail them all the time.zebedee37 said:
Legal clarification is probably needed. That way of moderation seems fair as long as the moderators don't mind keeping the same workload as they have while pre-moderating the forum.chrisyork said:
Anyway, you could argue back & forth but if say, 90% of forums are real-time then that makes the remaining 10% look as though their contributors cannot be trusted & many people may decide thats a good reason for not getting involved in the forum/club in the first place.
webmaster
New Member
Unfortunately in the UK (unlike the US) the publisher of a forum (ie. the P6ROC) can be held legally responsible for any comments posted on it, in basically the same way that a newspaper is responsible for the all articles it publishes regardless of who wrote it.
Have a look at The website which was forced to block all discussion of a certain person, and was almost shut down.
I know it's a bit excessive and I would rather the forum be open, however I had personal communication from a users solicitor during the previous problems, and I for one do not wish to lose my house over a club forum !!
I'm sure we can forumlate an effective procedure that will allow more free conversation, it's just a matter of coming up with something workable.
Have a look at The website which was forced to block all discussion of a certain person, and was almost shut down.
I know it's a bit excessive and I would rather the forum be open, however I had personal communication from a users solicitor during the previous problems, and I for one do not wish to lose my house over a club forum !!
I'm sure we can forumlate an effective procedure that will allow more free conversation, it's just a matter of coming up with something workable.
The Rovering Member
Well-Known Member
Ah well. Over to you then. House-loss over a website isn't an occurence that anyone would like to see happening. The posts are appearing quite quickly at the present time.
Lets hope U.K law catches up but don't hold your breath.
Lets hope U.K law catches up but don't hold your breath.
As I started this subject I may as well attempt to finsish it,
Richard has indicated that the official line here is that he and others on the committee would be liable for any slanderous type of statements posted on the forum, should the person on the recieving end wish to pursue such a matter, that clearly is a concern, one which I wouldnt want hanging over me either.
HOWEVER,
The rules we all agree on when clicking "enter forum", clearly states that offenders will be for want of a better description "banned" from using the forum.
i wholeheartedly agree with Zeberdee, Richard and others on their side of this, but it seems to me to be quite simple. If as you are saying there is always a moderator viewing the topics on the forum, and presumably you have the power to, press the appropriate BLOCK button on anyone you see getting over the top, or indeed down right abusive to another person, company or whatever the case may be. PRESS THAT BUTTON and ask questions later.
The rules are clear, they simply are not beng beng practiced accurately at present.
You know, I dont think this is such an major issue, as Rovering man says posts are put up fairly quickly in any case, im just making a point by saying (a) its not really a fair situation to other users, and (b) its easily fixed.
It would also be worth considering adding a disclaimer to those rules stating that every attempt will be made to block and delete anyone breaking the rule, however the moderators and the club will not be held responsible for any such remarks made by persons using this forum.
honestly I dont envy your jobs as moderators, but thses issues go with that job, and if that isnt to your taste, then leave the kitchen so to speak. This isnt meant as an insult just factual stuff. honest.
Lets not just put this on the back burner for another time, cos we would have to go over it all again. Lets get it sorted. eh.
Don.
Richard has indicated that the official line here is that he and others on the committee would be liable for any slanderous type of statements posted on the forum, should the person on the recieving end wish to pursue such a matter, that clearly is a concern, one which I wouldnt want hanging over me either.
HOWEVER,
The rules we all agree on when clicking "enter forum", clearly states that offenders will be for want of a better description "banned" from using the forum.
i wholeheartedly agree with Zeberdee, Richard and others on their side of this, but it seems to me to be quite simple. If as you are saying there is always a moderator viewing the topics on the forum, and presumably you have the power to, press the appropriate BLOCK button on anyone you see getting over the top, or indeed down right abusive to another person, company or whatever the case may be. PRESS THAT BUTTON and ask questions later.
The rules are clear, they simply are not beng beng practiced accurately at present.
You know, I dont think this is such an major issue, as Rovering man says posts are put up fairly quickly in any case, im just making a point by saying (a) its not really a fair situation to other users, and (b) its easily fixed.
It would also be worth considering adding a disclaimer to those rules stating that every attempt will be made to block and delete anyone breaking the rule, however the moderators and the club will not be held responsible for any such remarks made by persons using this forum.
honestly I dont envy your jobs as moderators, but thses issues go with that job, and if that isnt to your taste, then leave the kitchen so to speak. This isnt meant as an insult just factual stuff. honest.
Lets not just put this on the back burner for another time, cos we would have to go over it all again. Lets get it sorted. eh.
Don.
The Rovering Member
Well-Known Member
Rovering man indeed.....Hurumph!Don Wyatt said:
I have every sympathy with Richard and the committee over the legal implications. To be clear I will work as a moderator with whatever solution we can come up with for improving the "real time" ness of the forum. But don't forget that all moderators are volunteers and real life does impinge on our moderating occasionally!
So how about legal opinion and or practical experience from other forums from all you out there?! Perhaps best direct to Ricahard Webmaster?
Chris
So how about legal opinion and or practical experience from other forums from all you out there?! Perhaps best direct to Ricahard Webmaster?
Chris
Erik The Viking
New Member
Hi Guy's, Here goes with my six peneth worth........
I agree with both sides of the argument to be honest. Perhaps one answer to having a live Forum would be that the forum is only open to "live" members of the P6ROC, with valid membership. Correct me if I'm wrong (not good with computers) but whats to stop someone who has been banned setting up a new account, under a different name, after a couple of days??
If you have to provide your club membership number, in order to join the forum, then any offenders can be dealt with swiftly. The forum could still be viewed by non members, but obviously blocked from posting.
After all, at the moment the P6ROC is quite generously providing a free service here, for non club members, and it does take Chris, and Richard's time up. (Thanks Chaps!)
I agree with both sides of the argument to be honest. Perhaps one answer to having a live Forum would be that the forum is only open to "live" members of the P6ROC, with valid membership. Correct me if I'm wrong (not good with computers) but whats to stop someone who has been banned setting up a new account, under a different name, after a couple of days??
If you have to provide your club membership number, in order to join the forum, then any offenders can be dealt with swiftly. The forum could still be viewed by non members, but obviously blocked from posting.
After all, at the moment the P6ROC is quite generously providing a free service here, for non club members, and it does take Chris, and Richard's time up. (Thanks Chaps!)
testrider
Active Member
Currently the Volvo Owners Club has had its forum closed for liable and slander, I believe, from a customer towards and unhelpful garage and the garage owner took offence resulting in legal action toward the club. However, the pre-moderated posts system in use here can't work for them as there are upwards of 20,000 members. They are working towards a solution but it is a long way off but they are reluctant to make forum members become club members for some reason.
Is there a legal difference between a club members only forum and a public forum? Rich (Erik the Viking) is right to bring it up though as there is a vast amount of knowledge available here all free of charge when the club funds could use a boost of funds which some how seems unfair to the members.
Maybe club members could post real time and non-members but moderated?
Is there a legal difference between a club members only forum and a public forum? Rich (Erik the Viking) is right to bring it up though as there is a vast amount of knowledge available here all free of charge when the club funds could use a boost of funds which some how seems unfair to the members.
Maybe club members could post real time and non-members but moderated?
webmaster
New Member
From what I have read, everybody in the chain of "publishing" and "distributing" the content is liable, that includes the company hosting the website. What I have seen in most legal situations is that they go for the softest target, i.e. somebody that has enough money to payout, but not enough to mount a serious legal defence, so they tend to leave the ISP / Hosts alone and go after the site publishers i.e. the P6ROC
Although I maintain the site, it is "owned" by the club, so the club would be responsible.
It's very interesting that the Volvo club forum is closed. As you say they are much bigger than us, and it would be unreasonable to expect them the pre-approve every post. I'm not sure how you would police such a big forum effectively. On the other hand I suspect "Its too big for us to control" will not be an effective defence !
Although I maintain the site, it is "owned" by the club, so the club would be responsible.
It's very interesting that the Volvo club forum is closed. As you say they are much bigger than us, and it would be unreasonable to expect them the pre-approve every post. I'm not sure how you would police such a big forum effectively. On the other hand I suspect "Its too big for us to control" will not be an effective defence !
Brian-Northampton
Administrator
Wear a Name Tag at Shows!
Drawing this topic back to the subject of having name tags, and with the National Rally at Duxford approaching, I think it's a really good idea. I much prefer something on the dashboard rather then wearing a badge. I knocked up this one using the logo at the top of the Forum as a basis.
If anyone wants one, send me a private message with your email address and I'll email it to you for printing yourself. If you've got Photo-shop, then it's just as easy to DIY.
I'll be displaying my Forum name on my car at Duxford - you never know, someone might actually talk to me this time! ::
Regards,
Brian.
Edited By Brian-Northampton on 1214751993
Drawing this topic back to the subject of having name tags, and with the National Rally at Duxford approaching, I think it's a really good idea. I much prefer something on the dashboard rather then wearing a badge. I knocked up this one using the logo at the top of the Forum as a basis.
If anyone wants one, send me a private message with your email address and I'll email it to you for printing yourself. If you've got Photo-shop, then it's just as easy to DIY.
I'll be displaying my Forum name on my car at Duxford - you never know, someone might actually talk to me this time! :
: Regards,
Brian.
Edited By Brian-Northampton on 1214751993
Brian-Northampton
Administrator
Hi testrider,
I think you're right - A5 would be a good size, I'll laminate mine for future use.
I'll need your email address to send it back to you, so let me know by Private Message please - If anyone doesn't know how to send a private message, click on the "SEND MSG" button just underneath my signature on this message!
I think you're right - A5 would be a good size, I'll laminate mine for future use.
I'll need your email address to send it back to you, so let me know by Private Message please - If anyone doesn't know how to send a private message, click on the "SEND MSG" button just underneath my signature on this message!