Suddenly the clutch won't disengage

[p6baseunit]

Did you manage to get this sorted?
I had the same problem on a 2000tc that I have just bought.
Clutch master was rebuilt a handful of years ago and the slave is recent and not leaking.
When I drive the car home, all seemed ok and the clutch peddle is a bit lighter than my other 2000sc and the clutch disengages promptly.

A few days later drove off the drive and down the road (hill), turned left and then was unable to get the car into any gear....
After several mins of "gentle" forcing, I managed to to select gears and drive
I instantly thought of gearbox oil. I drained the gearbox and only about 1/3 of a litre came out.
I refilled it with 1litre standard mineral engine oil and the gear change has completely changed and appears normal.
My drive slops downwards, so when I drove the car home, it was on the flat and the oil splashes around.
Sat on my sloping drive and what little oil drains down and to the front of the box.

The gear change in my other 2000sc was awful, when I first had her and wouldn't select 1st without a lot of forcing (100miles after an engine rebuild and new clutch). This car had a full litre of creamy like gloop in the box. Replaced with fresh basic mineral engine oil and the gear change is a dream.

 

[Dangermouse]

Could it be the clutch cover fingers are seized or worn so that the plate is not being freed or there is oil on the plate causing drag, which would make it very difficult to change gear. also the plate could be stuck on the shaft splines.

 

[Cooper99]

Did you manage to get this sorted?

No, unfortunately I haven't. I see no other solution than to remove the engine/gearbox, which I'm not exactly looking forward to.

I instantly thought of gearbox oil. I drained the gearbox and only about 1/3 of a litre came out.
I refilled it with 1litre standard mineral engine oil and the gear change has completely changed and appears normal.

I changed the oil and filled with 1 litre, without any improvement. However, for some reason a large amount of the oil is leaking out again on the garage floor. I have'nt checked from where the oil is leaking, but it doesn't seem to come from the drain plug.

 

[Cooper99]

Now it is time to prepare for the engine/gearbox removal to fix the clutch problem. Should I follow the instructions in the Rover repair manual, or are there any other experience-based methods and hints to follow? I know I have read a thread here about lifting the engine/gearbox, but I can't find it now.

 

[harveyp6]

It's not necessary to remove the engine and gearbox as a unit to access the clutch, the gearbox can be removed on its own from under the car.

 

[Cooper99]

Yes, I have understood that it's possible to do that. But from info on the internet it seems that most people find it easier to lift out the whole unit. It also gives me the "opportunity" to fix the engine bay since my car needs that. To remove only the gearbox I guess I have to hoist the car up pretty high to get the box down and out?!

 

[unstable load]

You need only lift the front up high enough to clear the bell housing, but remember, that box is HEAVY.
You should have either a jack that can support the weight or a second pair of hands to help you out.

 

[harveyp6]

The boxes aren't that heavy, far less than an LT77 or any of the autos, and they are easily lifted out by one person, providing they follow the correct procedure, otherwise, no matter how many people or jacks there are, it won't be coming out.

Taking the engine/box out as one unit may be easier for some people, but it's more than twice the work, and turns a job into a marathon.

I've always done them with the front on ramps and the rear on stands, and never had any problems heightwise.

 

[Cooper99]

Hmm, okey. Maybe I should consider removing only the box then. Where can I find the correct procedure? I think I have seen it here on the forum somewhere

 

[Cooper99]

I have nearly completed all the steps in the section "Engine and gearbox removal Operation A1-3A" in the Rover manual. However, I have a question regarding terminology in step 22. Step 22 says: "[...] Push the reverse selector shaft forward, rotate the gear selector 90 degrees anti-clockwise to clear the selectors, and withdraw the shaft rearwards."

In this case, do they by "reverse selector shaft" mean the gear lever; to put the gear lever in reverse (=forward) before rotating the shaft under the car 90 degrees? If not, what is the "reverse selector shaft"? I can only see 1 selector shaft under the car, and not any that is specific for the reverse.

 

[harveyp6]

^^^Forget all that, it's only applicable to Series 1 cars.^^^

Just remove the gearlever, which I do from underneath, but you'll probably find it easier to remove the centre console and do it that way.

 

[Cooper99]

Ah okey, thanks.

 

[Cooper99]

The engine and gearbox is now separated, and hopefully I can find the cause to why the clutch won't release fully. This is what it looked like.
Lots of oil and dirt. I suppose it shouldn't look like this!? Before I took the engine package out I added oil to the gearbox because it was only half full. Since then I noticed oil leakage, but not from the drain plug. I now think that the oil leaked into this housing through a damaged oil seal and then out between the gearbox and engine.


I can't see any direct damage to the clutch cover. Does it look as it should? I will change clutch cover and clutch plate anyway. The probability that the clutch plate has been exposed to oil should be high.



Before I dismantle more I would like your opinions on the pictures above, and if you by these can find a probable cause to why the clutch don't fully release, as described earlier in this thread. Since the clutch cover doesn't seem damaged, could the cause be in the withdrawal unit?

 

[Cooper99]

Okey, the cause is found. A bit of the clutch plate has been broken off and been clamped between the flywheel and clutch plate and blocked the clutch to release. The flywheel has been damaged; I suppose it shouldn't look like this!?

 

[harveyp6]

Yep, that'll do it!

And no, the flywheel shouldn't look like that.

 

[Cooper99]

Well, the mystery is solved, but too bad the flywheel is damaged. Is it possible to find a new one or is this such a part that is hard to get? Wadhams or Rover Classics don't seem to have it in the webshop.

However I'm not sure that the part from the clutch plate is the cause to the deep wear mark in the flywheel. The broken off part isn't in the same shape as the mark on the flywheel. The clutch plate has the corresponding mark, and I think that this must have been the result of many miles of driving. It seems like the rivets of a worn clutch plate can have been the cause (this clutch plate or a previous one). After I noticed that the clutch didn't release properly I drove the car just a few miles. So I think the broken clutch plate is the cause to the clutch not releasing, but that the wear mark on the flywheel has been there for a long time.

That raises the question, if I can't find a new or used flywheel, can I leave the flywheel as it is, fit a new clutch plate and cover and letting the clutch plate be worn in while driving the car?

 

[harveyp6]

Well, the mystery is solved, but too bad the flywheel is damaged. Is it possible to find a new one or is this such a part that is hard to get? Wadhams or Rover Classics don't seem to have it in the webshop.

I doubt you'll find a new one, but a secondhand one should be fairly easy to get. (In the UK)

However I'm not sure that the part from the clutch plate is the cause to the deep wear mark in the flywheel. The broken off part isn't in the same shape as the mark on the flywheel. The clutch plate has the corresponding mark, and I think that this must have been the result of many miles of driving. After I noticed that the clutch didn't release properly I drove the car just a few miles. So I think the broken clutch plate is the cause to the clutch not releasing, but that the wear mark on the flywheel has been there for a long time.

The groove in the flywheel was caused by the rivets on a previously worn out centre plate, and not, as you say, by the broken bit. That just caused the failure to clear.

That raises the question, if I can't find a new or used flywheel, can I leave the flywheel as it is, fit a new clutch plate and cover and letting the clutch plate be worn in while driving the car?

That's what someone has done before.

 

[Cooper99]

Okey, I think its hard to find one in Sweden unfortunately but I will try. Is it a really bad choice to leave it as it is, or is it of no great importance?

 

[harveyp6]

Is it a really bad choice to leave it as it is, or is it of no great importance?

It's best if it's replaced. They can be skimmed, but that groove looks pretty deep to me.

 

[Demetris]

Don't leave it like this.
If you can't find a used flywheel in Sweden, then you will have to have one shipped from UK.
You can ask for it in the wanted section. I am sure there must be at least one forum member that has one lying around from an old / scrap engine. Be prepared for the shipping costs though, it won't be cheap.
As an alternative, at least Wins should have a used one. You may pay more for the flywheel, but the shipping will be more reasonable. Parts companies like this have always better prices on courier contracts, rather than the one-off amateur.