Running temperature too high???
- Thread starter rockdemon
- Start date
Hi,
an update on this and a (leading) question I think...
Took PAE for the longest drive (26 miles each way) since i did the engine today and it did eventually get up to the top of the green on the gauge after about 10 miles. However it seemed to lower the temperature itself when it went up or down hills... This coupled with I think some water dripping down the bottom hose leads me to think that maybe the water pump has had it's day... I have a spare one on the engine I took out - should i attempt replacement? Does this all ring true as the water pump?
Thanks.
an update on this and a (leading) question I think...
Took PAE for the longest drive (26 miles each way) since i did the engine today and it did eventually get up to the top of the green on the gauge after about 10 miles. However it seemed to lower the temperature itself when it went up or down hills... This coupled with I think some water dripping down the bottom hose leads me to think that maybe the water pump has had it's day... I have a spare one on the engine I took out - should i attempt replacement? Does this all ring true as the water pump?
Thanks.
Well I've taken the pump off the other engine and it appears to be virtually brand new... question is, do the symptoms above sound like the water pump? I'm a bit loathe to take the current one off knowing the problems with rusted bolts that may be lurking if this isnt the problem...
Rich.
Rich.
Hello Rich,
The water pump will still circulate the coolant even when the seal has failed and a coolant loss is evident. If the loss is considerable, then of course the engine temp will rise in accordance. When the engine was cold Rich, how far down the radiator was the coolant level?
To reach the top of the green in only 10 miles,....what was the ambient temperature and driving conditions Rich?
Ron.
The water pump will still circulate the coolant even when the seal has failed and a coolant loss is evident. If the loss is considerable, then of course the engine temp will rise in accordance. When the engine was cold Rich, how far down the radiator was the coolant level?
To reach the top of the green in only 10 miles,....what was the ambient temperature and driving conditions Rich?
Ron.
Hi Ron,
It's been behaving very oddly from what i can see. I'll try and describe everything i can about it...
1. It is losing coolant. Today after driving 26 miles to my mum and dad's house, it had dropped down the radiator by about 3 inches. It had been apparently full before setting off. There is water getting splashed around the water pump area from somewhere I think though it's difficult to see exactly where from.
2. It sometimes seems to behave and sit right in the middle of the green range till a certain point where it heads northwards. WHen the car points up or down hill it then corrects itself slightly - although this effect gets less each time it happens.
3. THe water pump itself whilst easy to turn does offer a little resistance compared to the other one i have ( the known good spare...)
4. There is sometimes a slight white foaming on top of the coolant in the rad. This made me wonder about the gaskets i put on when changing the heads although there seems to be no other sign of gasket trouble.
It pulls fine and performance is OK - not stellar, but good enough for a 42 year old car...
Only other thing i know i need to do is to put the covers on the rocker shafts ( i didnt realise they were needed and as the sd1 heads didnt have them fitted).
Any wisdom/experience in this area is gratefully received
THanks,
RIch
4.
It's been behaving very oddly from what i can see. I'll try and describe everything i can about it...
1. It is losing coolant. Today after driving 26 miles to my mum and dad's house, it had dropped down the radiator by about 3 inches. It had been apparently full before setting off. There is water getting splashed around the water pump area from somewhere I think though it's difficult to see exactly where from.
2. It sometimes seems to behave and sit right in the middle of the green range till a certain point where it heads northwards. WHen the car points up or down hill it then corrects itself slightly - although this effect gets less each time it happens.
3. THe water pump itself whilst easy to turn does offer a little resistance compared to the other one i have ( the known good spare...)
4. There is sometimes a slight white foaming on top of the coolant in the rad. This made me wonder about the gaskets i put on when changing the heads although there seems to be no other sign of gasket trouble.
It pulls fine and performance is OK - not stellar, but good enough for a 42 year old car...
Only other thing i know i need to do is to put the covers on the rocker shafts ( i didnt realise they were needed and as the sd1 heads didnt have them fitted).
Any wisdom/experience in this area is gratefully received
THanks,
RIch
4.
Hello Rich,
A drop of 3" in my mind would be alone insufficient given the ambient and driving conditions to bring about such a rise in temperature. So,......by the sound of it the water pump is the likely culprit when it comes to the leak. If you can feel underneath the pump behind the pulley you will feel a small hole in the pump casting adjacent to the bearing and seal. I expect this is where the coolant is coming from, either that or where the lower hose fits onto the pump.
The foaming of the coolant is a bit of a worry. Does the coolant smell like exhaust fumes?
The spash panels on the rocker shafts are only needed when using the rounded type rocker covers, as the later square types all have the spash panels integrated within the covers.
Ron.
A drop of 3" in my mind would be alone insufficient given the ambient and driving conditions to bring about such a rise in temperature. So,......by the sound of it the water pump is the likely culprit when it comes to the leak. If you can feel underneath the pump behind the pulley you will feel a small hole in the pump casting adjacent to the bearing and seal. I expect this is where the coolant is coming from, either that or where the lower hose fits onto the pump.
The foaming of the coolant is a bit of a worry. Does the coolant smell like exhaust fumes?
The spash panels on the rocker shafts are only needed when using the rounded type rocker covers, as the later square types all have the spash panels integrated within the covers.
Ron.
I'll check the bottom of the pump out in the light tomorrow - sounds like i should replace it...
The slight foaming has only ever occured once the engine is at these high temperatures - but i shall have a smell next time i have it up to operating temperature - see if it shows this sign. If it does is it worth me doing something like re-torquing the bolts, or is it heads off and new gaskets? Thinking this time i'll maybe go for the red instant gasket sealer on composite gaskets. This time i had used the tin gaskets dry... ( first time i'd done a rover v8 and previously on other engines was told best to use no extra sealants... Could be my mistake in this case???)
The rocker covers are the rounded ones - so i definitely need to sort that!
Thanks for your help ,
Rich
The slight foaming has only ever occured once the engine is at these high temperatures - but i shall have a smell next time i have it up to operating temperature - see if it shows this sign. If it does is it worth me doing something like re-torquing the bolts, or is it heads off and new gaskets? Thinking this time i'll maybe go for the red instant gasket sealer on composite gaskets. This time i had used the tin gaskets dry... ( first time i'd done a rover v8 and previously on other engines was told best to use no extra sealants... Could be my mistake in this case???)
The rocker covers are the rounded ones - so i definitely need to sort that!
Thanks for your help ,
Rich
Hello Rich,
If there does turn out to be a sealing problem with one or more head gaskets, I don't expect re-torquing the head bolts will see a solution, more than likely you will need to do them again. Tin gaskets are designed to be used with 14 bolt heads, whereas the composite gaskets go with the 10 bolt heads. You can of course use composites with the pre 1994 heads, but lifter preload will no longer be as it should be.
Did you have the heads checked and / or skimmed prior to installation?
Composite gaskets do offer a much improved seal, but neither tin nor composite require any sealant to be used. I expect you could use sealant with tin gaskets if you wanted to, but never having done so I cannot say if the outcome will be satisfactory.
Ron.
If there does turn out to be a sealing problem with one or more head gaskets, I don't expect re-torquing the head bolts will see a solution, more than likely you will need to do them again. Tin gaskets are designed to be used with 14 bolt heads, whereas the composite gaskets go with the 10 bolt heads. You can of course use composites with the pre 1994 heads, but lifter preload will no longer be as it should be.
Did you have the heads checked and / or skimmed prior to installation?
Composite gaskets do offer a much improved seal, but neither tin nor composite require any sealant to be used. I expect you could use sealant with tin gaskets if you wanted to, but never having done so I cannot say if the outcome will be satisfactory.
Ron.
I didnt have the heads checked out, though they came off an engine that was apparently working although crudded up... I guess if i do have to dismantle it again I should get them checked and maybe skimmed... I'm going to try retorquing the bolts today - got to be easier than taking it all apart again so worth a try. And when i get a water pump gasket I'll swap that... I really want to be able to get PAE to the rugeley show... I think it'd get there but at those sort of temperatures something could obviously be damaged...
Rich
Rich
ghce
Well-Known Member
A drop in coolant is to be expected in fact if it stayed fill after a run I would be more worried, if you read your owners manual it will tell you to expect a coolant level X inches below the radiator filler neck cant remember off hand if it's 2 or 3 inches. If there is wetness about the water pump this could be a cause of concern.
Graeme
Graeme
Boy am I happy - just decided to try my luck and see if any local garages had an infrared thermometer - and yes one did, didnt charge me to check it and said when my temp gauge is in the high greens just under the red it's actually at 75 degrees
PAE is definitely going to Rugeley now!
Rich
PAE is definitely going to Rugeley now!
Rich
vaultsman
Well-Known Member
...which suggests there's a fault somewhere in your sensing circuit? Not wanting to put a dampener on it Rich, but if it were me, I'd like to see a reading from their kit against a known reference? Preferably on a P6B.
Or change your sender unit for a known good one & see what reading you get. Have you got a sender in your spare engine you could try for a start?
Cheers,
Or change your sender unit for a known good one & see what reading you get. Have you got a sender in your spare engine you could try for a start?
Cheers,
Hi Stan,
Next step is to order a sender - If that's the same I'll get a voltmeter on it and see what it throws out! and see if i can get someone else to do likewise...
*Edit* there is a temp sender on the other engine - i could give it a go I guess... thinking it's likely to be older than the one that's on there though...
Rich.
Next step is to order a sender - If that's the same I'll get a voltmeter on it and see what it throws out! and see if i can get someone else to do likewise...
*Edit* there is a temp sender on the other engine - i could give it a go I guess... thinking it's likely to be older than the one that's on there though...
Rich.
hi chris
i've only had p6 engines with carb manifolds so should be a p6 one - the SD1 heads are off an EFi engine.
But maybe not... It's obviously reading high for a reason and the previous owner was under the misapprehension that it was an SD1 engine or heads, which it patently didnt have... so could have fitted the wrong one...
rich
i've only had p6 engines with carb manifolds so should be a p6 one - the SD1 heads are off an EFi engine.
But maybe not... It's obviously reading high for a reason and the previous owner was under the misapprehension that it was an SD1 engine or heads, which it patently didnt have... so could have fitted the wrong one...
rich
Anyone have any ideas about my own 1973 P6 V8 and running temp.
I have installed an uprated rad, new hoses (all), new temp sensor, flushed the system (inc. block taps), rodded out the manifold pipe and cleaned the pipe under the manifold (which connects to the heater). I have fitted a new 85c thermostat and a Kenlowe. I have checked the coolant with a 'sniffer' - head gaskets all OK.
Now, all is OK when moving. Temp gauge just about in the green. It actually struggles to get into the green in cold weather! But if I take the crank driven fan off and drive the car in warm weather, the temp gauge very quickly jumps into the latter half of the green and inches towards the red when stationary in traffic (for only a few minutes).
Given I have the uprated rad and Kenlowe, I would like to enjoy the 10BHP boost from removing the steel fan. However as it stands it ain't gonna happen...
I have installed an uprated rad, new hoses (all), new temp sensor, flushed the system (inc. block taps), rodded out the manifold pipe and cleaned the pipe under the manifold (which connects to the heater). I have fitted a new 85c thermostat and a Kenlowe. I have checked the coolant with a 'sniffer' - head gaskets all OK.
Now, all is OK when moving. Temp gauge just about in the green. It actually struggles to get into the green in cold weather! But if I take the crank driven fan off and drive the car in warm weather, the temp gauge very quickly jumps into the latter half of the green and inches towards the red when stationary in traffic (for only a few minutes).
Given I have the uprated rad and Kenlowe, I would like to enjoy the 10BHP boost from removing the steel fan. However as it stands it ain't gonna happen...
I guess it's a case of the kenlowe not shifting the heat? It's been discussed elsewhere that when idling the alternator doesnt put out much current when the car is idling so it might not provide enough current to drive the fan at full speed.
Cowling can make a difference - obviously it's no use the kenlowe pushing air around, under or to the sides of the rad.
What temperature does your kenlowe kick in at?
Rich.
Cowling can make a difference - obviously it's no use the kenlowe pushing air around, under or to the sides of the rad.
What temperature does your kenlowe kick in at?
Rich.
Rich, the Kenlowe kicks in around 85c according to the gauge (whatever temp that actually is is anyone's guess). There is no problem with the Kenlowe shifting the heat, all is fine here. It is the rapid rise in temperature when the car is sat for just a few mins in traffic that troubles me.