Reluctant to get to top gear

V

V8P6B

Member
Hi All,
Since passing the MOT, I've driven the old dear gently for about 60 miles so far, and have noticed that on the upshift, especially from a standing start, the autobox really doesn't want to get out of 2nd gear into top, the revs seem to hang or ages before eventually 3rd gear selects. I can't seem to encourage it into top by backing off the throttle either. Apart from this one fault, the car drives beautifully. It sometimes hangs on to 2nd gear when slowing to a stop too, i.e. if you come to a roundabout, slow down to almost a crawl, it stays in 2nd when you pull away, which is quite sluggish. Any ideas? I have noticed the rubber bush on the throttle linkage is badly perished/bits missing from it, and have ordered a new one fro Ian at Rover Classics, so I'm hoping that will help. Kickdown seems to work ok though, although it is a bit late.
 
If the throttle bush is shot, but it still kicksdown then it could be the pressures are too high, which would explain the other symptoms as well, so fit the new bush, see what it's like then, and if it's still the same then it can be investigated further, but there's no point until the new bush is in there.
 
Well, I've replaced the throttle linkage bush, which has taken about 1/2" of play out of it. The throttle response is much improved, but my gearshift hasn't, although it does seem to change up better when it's warmed up. Next job is to check the kickdown cable adjustment, and go through the carb settings too, as it all needs looking at. Another problem I have is being able to see the level on the autobox dipstick. I know it must have been a little bit low, from when I removed the radiator, as when I drove it to the MOT station, I momentarily lost drive while stationary pointing uphill slightly. I spent about 30mins checking the levels in the correct way, selecting all gears, then checking it in park on a level surface when it's warm, topping it up, rechecking etc, but find it hard to see the level on the stick. I've heard tell you can dry the stick with chalk dust , and wipe it off.
 
V8P6B said:
I've heard tell you can dry the stick with chalk dust , and wipe it off.
Click to expand...

You have, in the checklist at the top of this section. Rub the bottom of the dipstick with some white blackboard chalk and then wipe it off to dry the area.
 
Right, I've tweaked the carbs now, as the tickover was too high, (1060rpm when warm using the tacho on my multimeter). It didn't seem to want to tickover very well below 660, so I set it at that. This, and the throttle linkage bushes are the only things I've played with so far, and the reluctance to go from 2nd into top is all but gone, I'm guessing because the throttle stops on the carbs were holding the revs too high, which by virtue of the throttle linkage, also meant the kickdown cable was being pulled too much. The kickdown cable is right at the end of its adjustment though, and was before I reset the throttle stops. The car is running really nicely now, not too rich, not too lean, and changes when it should (more or less), so I'm going to leave it be for a while & drive it. I've got about 150 miles under my belt now, and am getting happier with the car all the time. 8) :D
 
Hi v8p6b , I think drive it and enjoy . Mine still leaves an incontanance spot over nite . I'm no expert but i don't think they were ever designed to be laid up for long periods . Mine did 3000 k since a major rebuild in 03 .Mainly body stuff . It 's getting better the more i use it . I've done 700ish miles since i did the head gasket ,water pump ect .
I think give it a bit of time , don't be looking for problems ! 8)
 
I know what you mean about not liking being laid up, Mine's been off the road for 6 years... until now..
I'm just enjoying driving it, and tinkering... I always seem to be tinkering.. but I enjoy it. I've run out of things to tinker with now though, probably not for too llong though.. :LOL:
 
Sorry to resurrect this old chestnut, but I'm still having a few problems getting into top gear when the gearbox is cold. From a standing start, driving normally, with not too much throttle, the car changes from 1st to 2nd at about 18mph indicated. 2nd to top occurs at about 38mph indicated; the engine seems a little high revving to me when it goes into top. I can sometimes pre-empt an upshift by letting off the throttle. This happens worse when the car is cold. I've checked the throttle linkages are hitting full throttle when the pedal is all the way down, the tickover is about right, the gearbox doesn't surge going into D or R, and kickdown works perfectly when you give it the beans, so I think most things are right. However, 3rd gear is too late, and it also holds onto 2nd slowing to a stop. At about 5mph I get a slightly surging downshift, but only from 3rd to 2nd. If I pull away immediately, it pulls away in 2nd, then downshifts fairly briskly into 1st. If I sit stationary for a few seconds, it pulls away normally in 1st. I did wonder about the kickdown cable. Pulling the cable, it doesn't seem tight at all, so this leads me to the following question of our favourite Gearbox Guru... Harvey.

My question is this.. Does the pulling the kickdown cable have the effect of delaying the upshift? (This is how I think it works). So if its upshifting late, shortening the cable sleeve by adjustment should have the effect of lengthening the inner cable, and making it slacker right? Only I tried this, and it seems to have made the problem slightly worse. I would have thought it would have improved it.. :?:

Where to from here? Do I need to tighten the kickdown cable? It seems fairly slack, but not overly so.. I'm confused.. especially when the problem isn't there so much when its warm..
 
I'd say both those shift speeds are too late for light throttle. To reduce the pressures you need to screw the adjuster on the outer cable upwards into the bracket. If you've been moving the adjuster downwards you have been making the problem worse.

Late 1-2 & 2-3 shifts, lifting off the gas to prompt the upshift, as well as the clonk on the 2-1 downshift all point to the pressures being too high. If it was just the 2-3 shift, and only when cold, that could be a governor fault, but by the sounds of it you've got more than that going on.
 
Cheers Harvey. Your experience and insight are very welcome. I did wind the adjuster up slightly, as you say, thereby slackening the cable. It looks like it's pretty much at the end of its adjustment now though, with almost all of the threaded adjuster up through the bracket. I only wound it up about 1.5 turns. I'll try winding the adjuster up a bit more tomorrow. It is funny how it seems worse when cold though. It's not something I can't live with, but I'd like to try & understand how it works, and get it right.. I'll let you know my findings. 8)
 
V8P6B said:
It looks like it's pretty much at the end of its adjustment now though, with almost all of the threaded adjuster up through the bracket.
Click to expand...

Compare that to the other thread on here (John?) where he's got the adjuster all the way down, including putting the locknut on the bottom, and his still isn't right, and you'll begin to see why there are no hard and fast rules as far as where they end up, even though they all have to be done to the same criteria.

It will be worse when it's cold because the fluid will be thicker, so the pressure will be higher than when it thins out a bit as it gets hot.
 
Right, this morning I wound the downshift cable adjuster up some more, and its at the end of its adjustment now, and the crimped stop on the cable is pretty much resting on the end of the adjuster. Took it out for a run, and made the following observations (engine & box at running temp):
1) 1st - 2nd is now at about 10 - 12mph indicated. (Using light throttle)

2) 2nd - 3rd happens now at about 28mph indicated (Again with light throttle)

3) Kickdown still works ok, but doesn't happen unless you pretty much floor the pedal.

4) Box seems to downshift much better when slowing to a stop now too, and doesn't seem to try & pull off in 2nd like it was.

5) Putting it in D or R when stationary at tickover is so gentle it can almost not be detected, which is nice..

I reckon it's about as good as I can get it now - much improved when warm, but still slightly reluctant to get to top gear when cold, but I can live with that.

Pretty happy with it now.. Cheers for the advice guys. 8)
 
Sounds pretty good, the 2-3 shift is still fractionally high, but there's no guarantee the speedo is that accurate anyway. You should have to floor the pedal to get it to kickdown, that's the idea. You could take it to the point where the crimp is resting on the top of the outer cable, as that's as far as you can go without cutting the crimp off, but if you're happy with it as it is, which it sounds as though you are, then I'd leave well alone.
 
This won't really be relevant but my Jeep's transmission ECU is designed to hold on to first gear for longer when the box is cool. This helps the fluid to warm up more quickly. Obviously the Rover doesn't have electronic control - but I was wondering if it has thermostatic control of wen the fluids starts to go to the transmission fluid cooler?
 
Now this might surprise you... But the BW35 in Lucky behaves pretty well exactly the same way as the box in V8P6B's car. It kick's down when required - ie almost never, and holds on to 2nd to about 43 mph on a light throttle, but changes up with a very brief release of the throttle. And I really like it that way. When I'm driving gently, I drive as if it is a manual and it does the changes when I want it to. When mildly pressing on it's perfect and when being a loon it's also perfect. All change qualities are excellent bar for a very slight jar coming down from 2nd to 1st - but only the hyper critical would notice! And of course if I manage to confuse the box by throttling up just as it's in the middle of changing down!

Now my understanding of the box, Harvey, is that that means that presures within are slightly higher than they ought to be? And that would be good for firm engagement of the bands etc? Is that a correct assesment? Or is there any potential downside to such a setting? If not, I'm certainly not changing it, cos it's exactly how I would set the box up given the choice!

Chris
 
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