new member from the Netherlands

Eus

Eus

New Member
Hi to all,
I own a '71 P6-3500 in almond yellow already for 17 or 18 years.
It is in fairly good condition although some (many...?) technical aspects of this car can be improved.
The reason for joining this forum is my plan to change the BW35 for a 4HP22 (2017)
Next step (2018) is to swap from carbs to free programmable EFI.
I'm part of a group of Rover enthousiast who are planning to do the same autobox swap.
I have read some articles on ARonline lately and found that this topic is still active in this forum.
Hope to find some additional information ragarding this swap which I will address separately.
Thanks to y'all up front.

regards Eugene
 

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Eugene, welcome, very nice car. Sits a little bit lower ?
Bought my P6 two years ago from the Netherlands (former owner Empella Bikes...).
With your projects you may find a lot of support here.
 
Hi Eugene,

I am also in holland and have a rover P5B and changed the BW35 for a ZF box. It is a fair bit of work but it changes the car in a positve way. Driving on the main roads is much more relaxed as the rpm at 120km/hr went down from 4000 to 2500 and no clunks anymore when shifting.

Peter
 
Really nice car Eugene, with a solid sliding sunroof? Looking forward to hear how the gearbox swap is going. Will you be doing it yourself?
Regards, Barten
 
Eus said:
Hi to all,
I own a '71 P6-3500 in almond yellow already for 17 or 18 years.
It is in fairly good condition although some (many...?) technical aspects of this car can be improved.
The reason for joining this forum is my plan to change the BW35 for a 4HP22 (2017)
Next step (2018) is to swap from carbs to free programmable EFI.
I'm part of a group of Rover enthousiast who are planning to do the same autobox swap.
I have read some articles on ARonline lately and found that this topic is still active in this forum.
Hope to find some additional information ragarding this swap which I will address separately.
Thanks to y'all up front.

regards Eugene
Click to expand...


Do it! The ZF swap is an incredible upgrade. I say that as the owner of the only ZF LHD car (to my knowledge) It won't turn your P6 into a modern car but it will make your car usable in modern traffic in a way no 50 year old design has any right to be. The ZF sticky thread has all the details you need. I got my box custom built from "eightofthem", the cross-member from Warren in NZ and the speedo drive from the US - basically a clone of Warren's car. The rest is basically just spanner work and a cut and flip of the front exhaust section.

If you are down in Southern Germany or Switzerland you are welcome to take a look/drive if that helps. You MUST also do the ARB upgrade!
 
Hi Peter, thanks for the warm welcome!
I think I already have most information and many parts already
- BMW E34 autobox: in stock
- RR bellhousing: in stock
- this week I'm picking up a 4.0 torque converter + flexplate + gearplate + bits to match
- Jaguar flange to propellor shaft: still looking for it (if you know one... ;-) - hard to find
- inhibitor switch: i will try to make a tread hole as described
- overhaul autobox ? : I will only fit new seals and filter and see how it all works- -
- valve block: I will use the BMW valve block and see how it works
- support bracket: I contacted the guy who fabricated the bracket for Warren L, but after an initial reply I have not heared since. Do you have a drawing maybe?
- controls: I thought it would be practical to use the BMW control stick but many people are opting for other solutions - what did you do?
- kick down cable: will have to have a new one made
- dipstick: I will find a solution
- plumbing: I will find a solution - have make a choice whether to use the original heatexchanger (HE) , use a separate one - or combine the 2
- speedo cable: did you make a mechanical solution - or did you use the electromechanical option of Warren L.

Thanks for your time in advance!

Regards, Eugène
 
Barten said:
Really nice car Eugene, with a solid sliding sunroof? Looking forward to hear how the gearbox swap is going. Will you be doing it yourself?
Regards, Barten
Click to expand...
Hi Barten, Yes I have a sliding solid sunroof - a very unique option - I have not seen many other P6's with it.
My P6 is originally from Switzerland - maybe that is the reason.
I hope to have the swap ready in 6-8 weeks from now

regards, Eugène
 
roverp5Bcoupe said:
Hi Eugene,

I am also in holland and have a rover P5B and changed the BW35 for a ZF box. It is a fair bit of work but it changes the car in a positve way. Driving on the main roads is much more relaxed as the rpm at 120km/hr went down from 4000 to 2500 and no clunks anymore when shifting.

Peter
Click to expand...
Hi Peter,
Good to hear that so many people are so enthousiastic about the swap. As you can read above I am progressing in my preparations but have some minor questions and I am missing a few bits .
Maybe you can share your experience with us. In the eastern part of Netherlands we have a group of Rover enthousiasts (among which Johan Lowik which you will know no doubt) who are simultaniously doing this job ( two or three P6's and one P4 - the P4 will receive a V8 engine).
Thanks in advance - Eugène
 
mtb_tuli said:
Eugene, welcome, very nice car. Sits a little bit lower ?
Bought my P6 two years ago from the Netherlands (former owner Empella Bikes...).
With your projects you may find a lot of support here.
Click to expand...
yes sits a little lower on the front side but I changed it back to standard springs - was a little unpractical ;-)
 
Hi,

The valve block I have is Range Rover in origin. The V8 is all torque and no revs with a 5200(ish) limit. The BMW motor is the opposite in character. Not sure if this would be a happy marriage as these rev to 6500+ and have much higher torque peaks.
The Jaguar parts will be simple to get in the UK (try Andy/eightofthem).
No drawings, only pictures of the x-member. I organized mine through Warren. John is a busy man by all accounts, but persevere.
All the controls are STANDARD P6 - you need the right lever length on the cables. The gate can be improved with a custom made selector gate (just a single piece of metal) which is a copy of that in the LDV van (see thread) but it works well enough as it is.
As for the fill level, use the standard Jaguar dipstick, find a kerb or ramp of the right height, put a spirit level on the sump and fill as normal! Then mark the level on the dipstick....
Speedo uses the electronic driver from Dakota Digital great bit of kit but won't register under about 25kph.
Kickdown - (Andy/eightofthem)
You really should NOT reuse the heat exchanger, it is pretty marginal even with the BW box - Warren's box overheated. Even a smallish external cooler will be much more effective. I could not fit the 13-row oil cooler and went for a 9 row one instead. Really, it's not a heavy car and I don't tow with it and ANYTHING will be better than the in-radiator solution, remember it dumps heat to ambient and not the 85 degrees of the coolant. I have a Jaguar XJ40 box which unlike the BMW has a thermal control valve for the oil so it will retain heat on a cold day.

My advice would be to talk to Andy/eightofthem, it'd be difficult to source parts at a better price and you have the benefit of his experience. It'll save a lot of time.
 
Eus said:
Hi Peter,
Good to hear that so many people are so enthousiastic about the swap. As you can read above I am progressing in my preparations but have some minor questions and I am missing a few bits .
Maybe you can share your experience with us. In the eastern part of Netherlands we have a group of Rover enthousiasts (among which Johan Lowik which you will know no doubt) who are simultaniously doing this job ( two or three P6's and one P4 - the P4 will receive a V8 engine).
Thanks in advance - Eugène
Click to expand...

Hi Eugene,

No problem with sharing the experience. As Peter ZRH mentioned there is a thread on the ZF mods which gives useful info. I used a Jaguar cable (not an XJ40 but an later S type cable) and kept the Rover shifter but had to make a custom bracket for it and changed the gear selector lock plates in the shifter to match the ZF pattern and the extra gear.It works very well. Precise and smooth shifter. I used a standard ZF kick down cable but had to modify the bracket on the manifold and the length of the arm. Fitted an external cooler and made my own pipes and got some hoses made. Got my box also from Andy. It is a LDV box but he fitted an Jaguar sump and supplied a Jaguar dipstick. This doesn't work well as the box is fitted under an angle to the Rover and straight on the Jaguar as far as i know. You could also consider to fit a Range rover sump and then use the Range Rover dipstick but this sump is deeper and could cause ground clearance issue's
On the P5 forum there is a thread on this mod also. (Fitting ZF Gearbox | Rover P5 Club Forum)
Have heard of John Lowik but never met him
If you need more info, let me know
Peter
 
Eus said:
Hi Barten, Yes I have a sliding solid sunroof - a very unique option - I have not seen many other P6's with it.
My P6 is originally from Switzerland - maybe that is the reason.
I hope to have the swap ready in 6-8 weeks from now

regards, Eugène
Click to expand...
I think that a possible reason for the solid sliding roof is protection if caught in a Avalanche, the fabric one would just cave in and you would end up with a cold ,wet head....;)
Peter
 
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Eus said:
Hi Peter, thanks for the warm welcome!
I think I already have most information and many parts already
-
- support bracket: I contacted the guy who fabricated the bracket for Warren L, but after an initial reply I have not heared since. Do you have a drawing maybe?

Regards, Eugène
Click to expand...

My car is still with Colin Gould of Kingsdown garage 01367 244646, but he has fitted my LDV ZF and fabricated a support bracket out of (I think) two engine mounts. If you have no joy with your contact, you may wish to call Colin. I am sure he could make a copy of the support he has used on mine.

IMG_0354.jpg

Peter
 
This is the support bracket for the P6. The finished article is Warren's, the "work in progress" is the refined version made for me.

Have to say, one of the odd things about the conversion is the engine doesn't rock like it did on start up, it's also eerily quiet. The whole effect is quite a jump in refinement. Either this is due to the properties of the torque converter or the rear bracket radically improves the engine/gearbox location. Maybe both but it's instantly noticeable to the extent I initially thought something was wrong...

All those involved, Warren, John and Andy. All top blokes and very helpful and patient and you'll save a lot of time and heartache by building on what they've already achieved - unless of course it's the challenge you want. This would have been a complete non-starter of a project for me without them.

One final word is the gearbox conversion is available "off the shelf" from at least 2 Triumph specialists for the Stag. It might be worth looking at these and see if any of the components would be helpful in Rover applications. I had a ride in a Stag and the conversion is in some ways even better because it corrects the lower overall gearing of this car without going somewhat over-tall like it will in the P6. (actually I haven't calculated the figures for the P5 yet). Be interesting to know what control block they used because the Triumph V8 is so different in character to the Rover, maybe actually the BMW would be a better bet with this.

image1.JPG
 
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In fact here's my updated table for the Rover P5B and the Stag. If you want to know why the ZF is so spectacularly good in the Stag it's because the 3.7 axle gives up a very flexible "top" (3rd) and a really useful "overdrive" (4th).

Remember older cars are not as aerodynamic as modern ones so overall the cruising gears will need to be somewhat lower. Certainly nearly 34mph/1000rpm for the P6 is seriously going to compromise things. I'm betting on the 3.54 axle to give sensible cruising gears AND a boost in sharpness in general driving. You can see what Rover did by upping the axle for the auto to make use of the limited 3-speeder but that came at a cost elsewhere. I'm guessing the P5B doesn't come off so well either, the upright front and larger area meaning it would be better a little lower, more around Stag levels - I wonder does an earlier P5 give you a more appropriate final drive ratio?

Interesting how very high the P6 is even as standard with the BW35, right? Not that you'd feel it with the slip. The lock-up in 4th really does give you effectively a 5 speed auto.


gearing-2.jpg
 
Cafcpete said:
My car is still with Colin Gould of Kingsdown garage 01367 244646, but he has fitted my LDV ZF and fabricated a support bracket out of (I think) two engine mounts. If you have no joy with your contact, you may wish to call Colin. I am sure he could make a copy of the support he has used on mine.

View attachment 10791

Peter
Click to expand...
Thanks Colin!
Regards Eugene
 
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