The problem i am having is that my trans wont shift into 3rd gear. I had to remove the trans from my car to replace a rear main seal. The last time I drove the car before I pulled the trans it shifted fine. After I put it back in it wont shift into 3rd. I have adjusted the kickdown cable to what the manual I have shows as the correct position with the throttle closed. I really need to get this car running can anyone of the bw35 gurus help me?
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Need help with a bw35
- Thread starter kokomoguy
- Start date
Low fluid level can cause dropping out of TOP, so could possibly cause you to lose it altogether, possible but unlikely, but check the fluid level properly and get it correct. Have you still got good drive in REVERSE? If you still have REVERSE without any slip, then the 2-3 shift valve could be stuck. As you've had the box out, check the linkage, especially the compensator.
Is it 4cyl or V8?
Check and set fluid level. (How are you checking it, and what type of fluid have you used?)
Check selector linkage.
Check kickdown cable adjustment.
Once all these are known to be correct let us know the result, and if its still the same we'll think some more.
Is it 4cyl or V8?
Check and set fluid level. (How are you checking it, and what type of fluid have you used?)
Check selector linkage.
Check kickdown cable adjustment.
Once all these are known to be correct let us know the result, and if its still the same we'll think some more.
Actually it is in a 1972 volvo 144 4 cylinder. I have adjusted the shift linkage it was a little off when I got the car. I have also adjusted the kickdown cable. I'll check the fluid level in the morning. Some one mentioned something about a valve in the tail housing, the governor valve sometimes sticks. I dont know how true that is or if it could cause my problem. I Am using type F fluid and I check it with the car running in park with the trans hot.
The governor can stick, but that would also affect the 1-2 shift as well as the 2-3 which is the one you're having problems with. Is the 1-2 shift on time or late, do you have to lift off the accelerator to get it to change, and are you sure that you're not getting TOP but missing out 1st or 2nd? What revs is the engine doing at 40mph when you think you are in 2nd waiting for the shift to top?
As long as the car is on level ground and you are running through the entire selector range before each dip and after adding each top up of fluid then running in PARK with the transmission HOT is correct.
Type F (or G) is correct IIRC, it should say on the bottle "Meets Ford spec. M2C-33G. DON'T use any of the DEXRON type fluids
As long as the car is on level ground and you are running through the entire selector range before each dip and after adding each top up of fluid then running in PARK with the transmission HOT is correct.
Type F (or G) is correct IIRC, it should say on the bottle "Meets Ford spec. M2C-33G. DON'T use any of the DEXRON type fluids
And if you run at those revs in SECOND and come off the throttle it still doesn't prompt it to change up?
I would say that 15-18 mph is a bit on the high side for the light throttle 1-2 upshift, making me think that the pressures are too high which will obviously affect the 2-3 shift point making it late as well, but you can normally get it to change by coming off the throttle as hinted at above.
You could try disconnecting the kickdown cable as a temporary measure purely for the duration of a short roadtest and to try to prove a point, and then driving on a very light throttle to see if it changes up into TOP then, but no harsh acceleration as you run the risk of doing some serious damage while it's disconnected. Another thing, does it have a crimp attached to the inner (kickdown) cable?
I would say that 15-18 mph is a bit on the high side for the light throttle 1-2 upshift, making me think that the pressures are too high which will obviously affect the 2-3 shift point making it late as well, but you can normally get it to change by coming off the throttle as hinted at above.
You could try disconnecting the kickdown cable as a temporary measure purely for the duration of a short roadtest and to try to prove a point, and then driving on a very light throttle to see if it changes up into TOP then, but no harsh acceleration as you run the risk of doing some serious damage while it's disconnected. Another thing, does it have a crimp attached to the inner (kickdown) cable?
Yes the cable has a crimp on it I had to move it so that the cable would be in the correct position with the throttle closed. The car shifted late when I got it. The downshift cam was about a quarter of the way on the cam before I adjusted it. I didnt do that till after I was already having the upshift prob. I havent disconnected the downshift cable yet. If it is a stuck valve would I have to remove the valve body to clean it and free it?? I havent worked on a auto before but I have torn a couple manuals apart.
So if you've adjusted the kickdown cable to the correct position with the throttle closed (idle) then you must have had the sump off already then, because if you'd got the correct adjustment it would be shifting at the correct speeds, or have you not removed the sump to set the cable at the bottom end, and just adjusted the cable adjuster up to the point it touches the crimp? In which case the crimp on the cable is probably in the wrong place. Or are you saying that the crimp is now free to move on the cable.
If we go back to the very start you said (IIRC) that all you did was remove and refit the box and the problem occured after doing just that, and so for the moment I still think that it's the cable adjustment. Should it be a sticky valve then yes the valve block would need to be removed and dismantled, but as I say at the moment I doubt it. The Governor valve isn't in the valve block BTW.
If we go back to the very start you said (IIRC) that all you did was remove and refit the box and the problem occured after doing just that, and so for the moment I still think that it's the cable adjustment. Should it be a sticky valve then yes the valve block would need to be removed and dismantled, but as I say at the moment I doubt it. The Governor valve isn't in the valve block BTW.
The crimp is now free on the cable. the cable did get hung up when i was pulling the trans now that I think about it. I did remove the sump and set the cable so that it is in the correct place at idle and WOT. The outer cable could be stretched. One thing is the car did shift hard before and wouldnt shift in to 3rd at 30mph unless i lifted off the throttle but now it just wont go in to 3rd at all. I really want to thak you for all of your help.
Stretching the outer cable will alter things because it changes the relative lengths of the inner and outer cable. If the crimp is now free on the inner cable then I'd try with the inner cable disconnected (exercising the caution I recommended earlier) and then see if it changes into top once you get up to, say, 30-35mph, with the cable disconnected it shoud change by then, but you could continue building up the speed gently beyond this and see what happens.
The kickdown cable and the Governor will both have an effect on both 1-2 and 2-3 changes though, I can't think offhand how either would affect just one.
As for the help, no problem, but we really need to sort it first........
The kickdown cable and the Governor will both have an effect on both 1-2 and 2-3 changes though, I can't think offhand how either would affect just one.
As for the help, no problem, but we really need to sort it first........
Ok so I disconnected the kickdown cable at the carb linkage and it made no difference other that i could barelly feel the 1-2 shift and it shifted almost as soon as the car started moving. 35-40 mph still in 2nd gear. So I guess the next thing to look at is the valve body right? Do any of the additives for trans fluid actually work to free sticky or stuck valves before I tear the trans apart?
kokomoguy said:Do any of the additives for trans fluid actually work to free sticky or stuck valves before I tear the trans apart?
Only one I've ever used, but only in PAS systems, although it's for autos as well, is the Wynns additive. They work mostly as a seal conditioner, but they would be promising more than that, whether they actually work beyond softening up the seals I wouldn't know. Once it's in the system it's not just a matter of draining it out if you want to get rid of it though. Adding that would have to be your call, but if you try it and if it doesn't work or causes other problems then we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.
From the start this has been another one that not being able to drive it myself has made it much more of a problem.
I know I've asked this before, but it's worth asking again. You've definately not got any problems with REVERSE? No delays slip or harsh engagement?
kokomoguy said:Reverse works perfectly.
Well if that really is the case, and the 1-2 shift is on time as well, but there's no 2-3 shift, you'd have to be leaning toward the conclusion that the 2-3 shift valve was sticky or stuck, although why that should occur after just removing and refitting the box can really only be coincidence.
Whereabouts in the world are you by the way?
That's a bit far for you to bring it to me for a roadtest!!!!
The shift valves are in a seperate housing on the top of the valve block which can be removed and then dismantled as a seperate unit once the block itself is out. If you don't find a fault with those, it's worth knowing that other valves inside the main block also have an effect on the shift valves, so a problem elsewhere can show itself somewhere els, in this case on the shift valve. I'm not sure if the valve block set up on the Volvo is exactly the same as that on the Rover, because Rover added quite a few modifications of their own which won't be found on any of the boxes fitted in other makes but they work on the same principle, but for exact knowledge I'd need the valve block, and possibly the Volvo BW book in front of me.
Remeber that absolute cleanliness is vital, and use nothing other than the correct trans fluid or Vaseline for assembly.
The shift valves are in a seperate housing on the top of the valve block which can be removed and then dismantled as a seperate unit once the block itself is out. If you don't find a fault with those, it's worth knowing that other valves inside the main block also have an effect on the shift valves, so a problem elsewhere can show itself somewhere els, in this case on the shift valve. I'm not sure if the valve block set up on the Volvo is exactly the same as that on the Rover, because Rover added quite a few modifications of their own which won't be found on any of the boxes fitted in other makes but they work on the same principle, but for exact knowledge I'd need the valve block, and possibly the Volvo BW book in front of me.
Remeber that absolute cleanliness is vital, and use nothing other than the correct trans fluid or Vaseline for assembly.
I've not seen a valve body diagram online, although I'm sure that there is one out there somewhere, the only problem being that due to the variations between boxes fitted to different makes of cars, you really need to be looking at the Volvo one, especially if you've never dismantled one before, just in case there are differences. Factory workshop manuals normally have fairly good diagrams in them. Get yourself some corrugated cardboard and then as you dismantle you can lay all the valves and springs in the grooves in the order they come out right next to the valve body section they come out of. Initially if I were you I'd just strip the 1-2 and 2-3 housing after removing it from the main valve block.
So you've removed the valveblock, and dismantled it and none of the valves were sticking and all of the valves and springs were in the correct places? If that's the case I can only assume that something you've told me along the way isn't quite right.
If the 1-2 shift is occurring and at the correct speed then the kickdown cable is correctly adjusted and the governor and throttle valve are working OK, and if you still have REVERSE then the rear clutch and band are working, so that really only leaves the 2-3 shift valve to be at fault, or a mistake in the diagnosis up to that point. I have to say that I was sceptical of the valve being stuck, because although in theory it could happen and cause the problem you have, I can't remember the last time, if ever that I've actually had it happen. The only thing I could think is that something within the valveblock has blocked the governor pressure reaching the end of the 2-3 shift valve, or there's a crack that's allowing the fluid pressure to be lost before it gets to the valve, but if that were the case you should have noticed that while it was all in bits.
My advice to you now won't be popular, but it's really your only course of action, and that's to start again from the very beginning. Two things are certain, firstly if there is a fault it's in there somewhere waiting to be found, and secondly you're either missing it, or misdiagnosing the fault in the first place.
If the 1-2 shift is occurring and at the correct speed then the kickdown cable is correctly adjusted and the governor and throttle valve are working OK, and if you still have REVERSE then the rear clutch and band are working, so that really only leaves the 2-3 shift valve to be at fault, or a mistake in the diagnosis up to that point. I have to say that I was sceptical of the valve being stuck, because although in theory it could happen and cause the problem you have, I can't remember the last time, if ever that I've actually had it happen. The only thing I could think is that something within the valveblock has blocked the governor pressure reaching the end of the 2-3 shift valve, or there's a crack that's allowing the fluid pressure to be lost before it gets to the valve, but if that were the case you should have noticed that while it was all in bits.
My advice to you now won't be popular, but it's really your only course of action, and that's to start again from the very beginning. Two things are certain, firstly if there is a fault it's in there somewhere waiting to be found, and secondly you're either missing it, or misdiagnosing the fault in the first place.