Need advice on where to take my P6 project - Bodywork issues

J

JC.

New Member
Ive spent the last 2 days stripping my new P6 V8S. All the outer pannels - wings, doors, scuttles, valances, bumpers, interior trim etc are in a container on the farm.
I steam cleaned the car and started attacking the base unit with a cold chissel and hammer in search of good metal.

This is what I found:

Sill end plates holed both sides
middle sills corroded both sides and severly bodged
D posts corroded and bodged both sides
battery tray disintegrated
multiple holes in boot floor
de dion trailing arm mount disintegrated
trailing edge of the boot knackered in both corners
Chassis corroded (structural section) under steering box idler. (engine out job to repair)
rear inner wings both sides are shot
front hockey sticks need replacing / patching

I dont know where to go now in all honesty. Right now its either serious metal work or scrap it.

There are some redeeming features though:
The innersills and floors appier sound although there is a bit of surface rust at the rear.
Rear suspension mounts seem solid
Floor pans are good.
Solid from the waist up?

Do any of you happen to live in the wrexham / chester area?
If so, do you fancy popping over to the farm one day for a cup of tea and a natter? I could really do with an objective opinion on this car as to weather its a viable project.
I hate to see good cars get scrapped. I would just apriciate some imput from another person who knows the cars but doesnt have any emotional attachment to mine.

If anyone wants to have a look please email me on jc_moulds@hotmail.com or just PM me through this forum.

-JC
 
Sorry I'm too far away to come and look but...

It does sound quite bad, especially the area under the steering idler. Although it all sounds like typical P6 rot. And roughly what I had to deal with on my original convertible.

I would be worried that there are possibly other areas that you haven't spotted yet !

Obviously you have 2 or 3 options, you can set-to and fix it, you could get another base unit / car and try again, or you could scrap it and try an Alfa Romeo instead ! (only joking)

I can't remember if you do your own welding, but if you do then you could have a go yourself. I would suggest starting with the worst bits - i.e. the steering idler area and rear suspension mounts etc, that way if you decide its too tough you won't have wasted too much time/money, and once those areas are done the rest should be straight forward.

Tricky one really, its at that point where a lot get scrapped and I certainly wouldn't blame you if you decided to do the same. Remember there's always another rotten car round the corner ready to be restored ! and maybe you could find one that wouldn't be such a back breaker !
 
:D I like the "I steam-cleaned" and "I took hammer and chisel"...

Good day to you all, I signed up last night at JC's behest as I am the other daft fool that got involved with this! As to why, well, I have a BGT and am looking after another BGT for a friend, and a wife who says 1 classic is enough. I have always fancied a P5 or P6, so it seemed like a good idea and compromise at the time!

Unfortunately, I'm a bit like JC re scrapping cars so would probably only egg him opn to be a "have-a-go" hero! On the other hand, with an independent view, well, we would have take that course. Mike the Farmer has been kind enough to offer space and facilities to get on with the welding, but it's not long term, so any assistance at looking teh car over would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks. Nice forum, by the way!
 
bin it, find a good one. unless your after an awful lot of welding & purely for the pleasure of rebuliding.
JC - your not the JC from the MGOC forum are you? - if so I've just sold my P6 V8 last week, it needed no welding.... :)
There are good cars around, and now you know where to look, and where to come for advice..... honestly cut your losses and look for another car............check out the advertisments section on the main web site !
 
Yes I am the same JC.
Derek, I was wondering what ever happened to you and your P6!
Did you manage to get those 5 stud BGT V8 dunlop rims restored for your P6?

This car of mine... It was basically free - Only cost me £250.

Im taking the B down to perry stephensons place over the weekend, he is going to teach me how to weld propperly.

As for my P6:
The trailing arm for the suspension that has gone soft looks easy enough to repair. (its the part where it bolts into the side of the boot floor) I guess it just wants a nice thick plate welding on, then the arm reattaching.
The suspension mounts under the rear seats are solid. It even still has the factory seam sealer round the pannels under there.
The Inner sills, the ones that connect to the floorpan are solid enough at the front. There appears to be surface rust at the back by the D post though.
Parts of the middle sill still remain which can be cut out
The owner then welded a cover sill over the full length of the inner sill THEN the outer sills were screwed on.

I think its just a case of cutting out the PO's bodges and welding in a new middle sill, end plates and sorting out the D posts.

I could go out now, spend 2 grand on a car take it home and strip off all the outer pannels and find exactly the same problems. If on the other hand I throw the same money at this I would end up with a P6 that I know for certain is solid where it matters and looks reasonably presentable.

Alternatively, does anyone know of a cheap 3500S base unit in good condition that I can put my good parts into? ???

Scrapping cars goes against the grain. However, making 1 good one out of 2 bad ones would make me feel a bit better about weighing in a shell for scrap.

-JC
 
Oh yeah... I lied... it was Martin that did most of the steam cleaning and, again, most of the rust finding with hammer and chissel.

Thanks Martin. :cool:
 
http://www.kewengineering.co.uk/upgrades4mgs/jc.htm

I have loaded a page with photos, apologies for the time it may take to load the images.

Here's the car when we viewed it with rose-tinted specs.

JC%20p6%20001.jpg


Here it is in a more realistic mood!
os%20sill%20section%20rear%20half%20jc.jpg


There are lots more depressing photos on the page link above. :(
 
Hi Guy's,

I've had a look at the piccy's on your website, and I'm afraid that it doesn't look very good to me. My friend had a 3500 auto in similar condition base unit wise, and in the end he had to admit defeat, and scrapped it. Unfortunately you will need to be fairly competent in car body repair, and welding to put this car right. Me personally, I'd cut my losses, and start looking for another, with a more sound base unit. I work in the accident repair trade, and I didn't want to do my friends car.

Sorry, but good luck :)
 
Thanks for the honest reply, Richard. It does seem that this poor car has had its day if we're being realistic.
:(
 
Erik The Viking said:
Hi Guy's,

I've had a look at the piccy's on your website, and I'm afraid that it doesn't look very good to me. My friend had a 3500 auto in similar condition base unit wise, and in the end he had to admit defeat, and scrapped it. Unfortunately you will need to be fairly competent in car body repair, and welding to put this car right. Me personally, I'd cut my losses, and start looking for another, with a more sound base unit. I work in the accident repair trade, and I didn't want to do my friends car.

Sorry, but good luck :)
Click to expand...
I would have to agree, at the end of the day it is repairable, but unless it had real rarity it just doesn't look worth it.
Do I remember seeing it on e-bay? That incorrect bootlid looks familiar.
I don't know what you paid for it but I'm sure it would break up OK to try and get some cash back or save some spares for your next try.
Good luck with whatever you decide.
 
I guess your right, HarveyP6, it just doesnt look worth it.
Those photos make the rusty sections look better than they are.
Its a real pity as there are so many good parts on this car. I guess i'll just have to admit defeat on this one. Im not giving up on P6 ownership just yet though... I guess it just wont be with PYW 163R. :(
I do look good in that first picture though! :cool:
 
Phew! What a great car the P6 is. All that Tinworm & yet still they look a million dollars when you see them blasting down the road. Sad to see them perish at the hands of those who love them. If we only had bottomless pockets. :(
 
JC - yes the car I needed the wheel nuts for was rebuilt and sold. I got this car for free and it only needed the inner sill on drivers side welded, any more and I'd have broke it - it was bought from me for more or less what I spent on it by a guy locally and he is happy enough with the car, although isnce pressed back into use some other parts have failed, which is to be expected. Looking at your pics if your going ahead you should check cost and availabilty of the full repair panels for the sills etc before you do anything else I think JR Wadams do them.
As a word of warning - it took me over a year to sell a almond V8 Auto that had a properly rebuilt base unit (Ianp6man done it) all good panels, recent paint, new roof etc and I did not achive a selling price of £2K - expect £1200-1800 as all your car may be able to achive when you come to pass it on. Thats not to suggest you intend to make £££ on the car but only to serve as a guide to how much you will loose if you spend £1000's on it.
The Car with the wheel nuts - it as mexico brown but I resprayed it MG Flame red with a black roof - and although I intended to run it for a few months it was sold before I had finished it!
Good luck !
PS Martin - (taking off my MG hat) surley the MG ZT is the moden equivalnet of the p6 's'! :D
 
I know someone who has an almost perfect base unit for sale near Bristol. Get in touch with Pilkie0, he`ll sort you out! :;):
 
To a certain extent its a shame they hide the rot so well, for starters you get a lot of unsuspecting buyers who end up scrapping cars that they wouldn't have bought had they know the true condition.

Secondly, the key to rust prevention is spotting the problems early and sorting them out, this is tricky on a P6 and you often don't find the problems until the car eventually fails and MOT, and thats if you've got a decent tester who knows what to look for, many will miss potentially major problems because they just aren't visible.

Anybody care to ask a seller if they mind you taking all the panels off for a proper look ? ???
 
kiltyarse said:
I know someone who has an almost perfect base unit for sale near Bristol. Get in touch with Pilkie0, he`ll sort you out! :;):
Click to expand...
Hi, I can't see a member by the name of Pilkie0, is there another way to get hold of him?
Thanks.

One can see the benefit of lift up wings for easier inspection and regular rust treatment!
 
Mmm.

I understand perfectly that there is a severe cash problem in the background here.

To get a car without any of the problems yours has will cost money you don't have. Personally, and with the benefit of a lot of hindsight, I would want to buy a car that had had all the known problem areas done and had a photographic record of the work. (that last bit is very important - English car came with the sills "done" and turned out to have been plated over and undersealed - not the right answer!) I don't believe in the notion of a solid base unit any more unless its had the work done recently. I've been looking for a 4 cyl to add to the collection and even the best one I've seen, which had metal everywhere, would have needed a full strip to get the surface rust off and paint on.

Ergo if your prepared to do the amount of stripping you've already demonstrated I'd carry on and start making with the repair sections. I'm with you in not believing in the notion of an unrepairable car! If you were paying to have it done professionally it might be uneconomic - but your not.

Sills and floor areas actually don't sound too bad - the real problems come when you've not got any floor going in from the sill. The only bit I'd want to take advice on would be the steering idler mounting area. That has potential to be difficult alignment wise depending on exactly whats not there and how much of it! No problem with chassis droop whilst welding with a P6 - the roof holds everything together.

My instinct would be to spend the money on the welding kit - I believe you'd need it whatever condition of car you bought below about £5k!

Hope that helps

Chris

(Oh - and P6's are worth the effort!!)
 
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