manual gearbox for P6 - installing 5 speed gearbox

G

gully

New Member
Hi there,

My standard 3 speed auto box on my 1976 P6 3500 is sounding very sick and I am now going to move to have a 5 speed manual gearbox installed.

I would appreciate any hints and advice on what to look out when installing 5 speed manual gearboxes.

I am assuming that there will be blank cut-outs on the firewall area for the various bits (clutch pedal etc) and that the pedals will all fit in the drivers compartment relatively easily.

ANy comments from those that have done this conversion before would be greatly appreciated.

Also I want to fit a thermostatic fan set-up on my car to help overcome the ongoing issue of a "HOT" Rover 3500 on the many hot days that we experience in Sydney. Again any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks



GULLY (In Sydney)
 
Pretty much all you need to know has been covered in previous threads, have a trawl back through and you should find them.
I've done a 5 speed conversion on a manual car and it was no problem, the auto has a bigger tunnel so gives more room, an auto car just needs the pedal box swapping over and an access hole drilling details of which have been given before. In my opinion the conversion makes a good car great and is well worth doing, I did my first conversion in the mid eighties and still own that particular car today.

Same thing applies to the electric fan as well.
 
Hi there,

My Rover is now in the Rover shop here in Sydney getting the 5 speed manual gearbox installed.

Interestingly my mechanic advised against installing thermo fans suggesting that my existing radiator will work better than the electric fans (once they find the reason why the car is running a little hot. He said electric fans systems can be troublesome and do not work better than the standard Rover fan system.

Very much looking forward to having the car back as a manual....it will be quite a chanage after driving the automatic.

GULLY
 
I think the main benefit of an electric fan is the ability to shift air when the car isn't moving, the normal fan shifts very little air at idle. And of course it's possible to wire the electric fan so that it can stay on after the engine is switched off, which also helps prevent heat soak.

At one point I had both the normal mechanical fan and an electric fan fitted to mine, I had an electric fitted in front of the rad and blowing through, this was on a manual switch so I could turn it on if things got hot in traffic.
 
I'm fitting 2nd hand electric fans with on/off switches to our cars as I go now as helpers in hot situations with the exception of the P4 as the cooling system is substantial & the temp rarely moves from the cold/normal position. I ran the P5B without the mechanical fan & a Kenlowe (with on/off as the sensor never worked) for a few years & it was fine on the move but she still got hot in traffic & that was with a 3 row radiator & the engine rebuilt. I've just had the radiator serviced again so may try it without the engine fan as a test but am minded to leave it on as I would think any advantages are negligible at best & I'm not a fan of staring worryingly at the temperature gauge in traffic. What with hotter summers & unleaded petrol I think 2 are better than 1.
I'm in the middle of the subframe swap on the P5B now & am very much looking forward to that wafting P5 ride once again. :)
 
The Rovering Member said:
I'm in the middle of the subframe swap on the P5B now & am very much looking forward to that wafting P5 ride once again. :)
Click to expand...
I've done one of those and I have to say it was a highly enjoyable job that paid well and sent a happy customer back on his way. We took 2 out and put one back in a day.
 
V8 is easy, in either an auto or manual car and has been covered before, fitting to the 4 cyl car is a possibility but won't be anywhere nearly as easy. I don't know of anyone who's done it yet with the LT77 (SD1) box, but I've heard rumours of being able to fit the Ford 5 speed. (As yet unconfirmed)
 
Q!!!!
Am I wrong,or have I read on a posting recently that the clutch bearing for a 2000/3500 is the same as the front? or rear? wheel bearing for a morris 1000??
And!!! a much cheaper solution to the £50-£55 wanted by some suppliers ???
+ who knows where can supply a reasonably priced 3-in-1 clutch kit for the 1970,2000 ???
cheers all
dave
 
Can't be sure whether that's correct or not, but unlike the gearbox rear mainshaft bearing, I doubt it's unique to the P6. With bearings it's always a good idea to get in touch with a bearing specialist, give them the numbers or take the bearing to them, and they will match it up. To them it's just a bearing so you don't end up paying through the nose just because it's going into an old car. 2 good places to look are the Timken and SKF websites, you can match up pretty much any bearing on there.
 
harveyp6 said:
The Rovering Member said:
I'm in the middle of the subframe swap on the P5B now & am very much looking forward to that wafting P5 ride once again. :)
Click to expand...
I've done one of those and I have to say it was a highly enjoyable job that paid well and sent a happy customer back on his way. We took 2 out and put one back in a day.
Click to expand...
Yes! It is straightforward & enjoyable if you have the room & a hoist to lift the car (even if you're not earning out of it). Is that how you did it too? I'm taking my time & cleaning everything up again & rectifying tasks that satisfied me 15 years ago but don't now. Mostly to do with re-routing & connecting wiring. I solder everything & cover with heatshrink plastic now, reusing original bullet connectors that I collect from scrappers. I've re-routed the petrol reserve cable too through the transmission tunnel as it was a bit stretched exiting via the bulkhead. Will have the autobox looked at too as it slips in park.
Click to expand...
 
pilkie 0 said:
Q!!!!
Am I wrong,or have I read on a posting recently that the clutch bearing for a 2000/3500 is the same as the front? or rear? wheel bearing for a morris 1000??
Click to expand...
That was the P4 clutch bearing that was the same as the Moggy wheel bearing. Not sure whether the P6 bearing has an equivalent.
Click to expand...
 
The Rovering Member said:
Yes! It is straightforward & enjoyable if you have the room & a hoist to lift the car (even if you're not earning out of it). Is that how you did it too? I'm taking my time & cleaning everything up again & rectifying tasks that satisfied me 15 years ago but don't now. Mostly to do with re-routing & connecting wiring. I solder everything & cover with heatshrink plastic now, reusing original bullet connectors that I collect from scrappers. I've re-routed the petrol reserve cable too through the transmission tunnel as it was a bit stretched exiting via the bulkhead. Will have the autobox looked at too as it slips in park.
Click to expand...
You have to bear in mind at the time I was running a business with a fully equipped workshop, but the same things apply wherever you do the job. We had the car that needed the new frame in the workshop jacked up and supported on stands under the bodyshell, and the eng/trans supported from above on a block & tackle, then we lowered the frame on a trolley jack and rolled it out having done the same to the donor car which was outside. (In that case supporting the engine from a block of wood across the (rotten) wings. Once we slid the replacement frame under(having changed a couple of rusty brake pipes) and bolted it back up, we then swapped over all the brakes to what was originally on the car. We left the steering box in place on the car throughout.
If your auto box is not engaging park, chances are it's linkage adjustment.(Unless someone's rammed it into Park while the car's still moving.)
As you say it's a good chance to do things properly while you're doing it.
 
I rolled the whole assembly out complete, engine, 'box, steering & wheels. Half dragged it really as I had the car supported by the engine hoist at the front & no stands tall enough to hold the car at that height. The trolley jack wouldn't roll either only being a diddy one. My larger one isn't staying put, only being good for lifting then supporting with stands/ramps which is what I do anyway. Never trust your life to a jack as you all know. The steering box is bolted to the subframe so you would have to have removed it, wouldn't you?
The auto box hasn't been mistreated, in fact it was (supposedly) rebuilt when we restored the car 15 years back though I always had my doubts as it never felt as smooth as I would like. I've heard since that the BW35 can be a bit clunky & not just from this Forum so it may have been. The fluid is clean & Red & I've found a decent local auto specialist so hopefully theres not too much wrong with it.
 
I just removed the bolts holding the steering box to the subframe, and disconnected the ball joints and left it on the car secured by the column. Saves disconnecting all the PAS hydraulics.
35 boxes don't have the smoothest of changes but seem to hold up well considering they're working pretty much at the limit with the V8. I can always get work done on the 35/65 boxes should you need it.
As an aside I always like the way some topics on here tend to move off on a different track seemingly with a mind of their own. Not strictly on the subject (and in this case not even the same car type) but always interesting nevertheless.
 
So you don't even have to remove the steering. Even simpler. What a car. The auto bloke said the park pawl is probably broken as it's a purely mechanical device. I removed & cleaned the 'box earlier & I'm going to run it down to him tomorrow so he can whip the bottom off & have a look. Looking in a recent P5OC magazine there's a web forum discussion reprinted which alludes to the BW35's clunkiness & includes references to high pressure & the kickdown...etc. I always found the changes are smoother when you can put your foot down slightly which does smooth them out. Same with the '65 in the P6. Worst is when you're about to change then have to lift off the gas. CLUNK!! Thats why I normally lock into 2nd when you're street crawling. Apparently the DG boxes in the Humbers, et al, are much smoother.
Talking of simplicity, the P4's handbrake started slipping the other day. Turned out the little finger thats locates in the pawl was rounded off. Filed it back to shape, adjusted the handbrake up, good as new. Easy-peasy. What cars! :;):
 
The pawl can get broken off, usually by putting the car in park while it's still moving as I said before. It doesn't happen all the time though and is usually linkage adjustment. It can't break on the 65 as that has an override so park won't engage untill the car stops. If you can get the kickdown well set up they (35/65) can be a reasonably smooth box, but you'll never get a seamless undectable change. It's possible I contributed to the discussion on the P5OC web forum, another interesting and informative website. The DG box is a lot smoother, but it's a much heavier box and more difficult to get in and out. I'll stick to diagnosing the 35's and 65's I think, and leave the DG's to those who know what they're doing. (I'll try and remember saying that next time someone asks me to have a look at one!)
As for the P4, I've never had much to do with those.
 
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