Jacking question (for tyre changing)

Depends how high lift your jack is and how high you want to lift the car.
I prefer to not use a block of wood on the rear jacking point as that metal block usually sits quite nicely in the jack saddle and when you raise the car you want the jack to be able to roll a certain amount. When you use a block of wood, there's the potential for that to rotate or slip out after a certain height/angle. I'm very cautious with things like this, but have had countless p6s up on a very high lift jack from this point 3 or 4 feet in the air with no problems.
If however you just want to get the wheels high enough to remove them, a block of wood at the rear should be fine if it's large enough.
I sometimes favour jacking on the rear crossmember, but you need a long reach jack to get enough front to rear angle without pulling the car over to one side too much if that makes sense. It's quite a bit lower though so doesn't need a particularly high lift jack to get the wheels off the floor.
Jim
 
To use the little box at the back you need a high lift trolley Jack. No wood.
Some people use a scissor Jack with a square of wood underneath the sill jacking points which are
Where the rubber bungs are along the sill covers.
There are four of them one near each wheel. Use this method to change a wheel only.
 
This is what the factory side sill points look like behind the screw on outer sill.
Many are not in good condition now /or poorly repaired and may not be safe to use without careful investigation .
You can normally use a trolley jack on the chassis section as shown with my screwdriver ( left hand side shown )
with a piece of wood on the jack pad.
At the front i use the lower cross member with a thick piece of wood.
Getting the height required for lifting does depend on the jack itself .
Clive .20161109_181138.jpg 20161109_180715.jpg 20161109_181442.jpg 20161109_181104.jpg
 
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I am so glad I live in NZ where rust is not the hidden nightmare that it is in the UK, I have used my jacking points every time I have needed to change a tire or swap out disk pads and every other conceivable reason that I needed to lift the car to gain access underneath it.
Perhaps just to add my 10 cents a jacking point restoration would be in order, the benefits are many 1: not having to lift and carry a huge trolley jack 2: not having to get down to sill level to find a place to put your scissor jack (on a busy highway). 3: worry for crushing your sills. 4: balancing the entire car on the rear or front members......
Sure the original jacking point method does have a couple of down sides such a 1: worrying about the head of the jack contacting a door panel (never happens) 2: fore to aft movement on the factory jack is a stability issue you need to be aware of but once you know about it you are golden.
But perhaps the most telling benefit of knowing your original jacking points are 100% is that you will in the process be able to access the inner sill integrity and be more confident in the safety of your classic in the event of an accident.


Graeme
 
Well thanks for all your answers. I appreciate you taking the time to help a mechanical ignoramus such as myself.
So to sum up - use the jack directly onto the little box beneath the centre of the rear bumper, or place a piece of wood underneath the car where the rubber bungs are on the sills and jack it up using that. I think I am clear on that now. I presume a scissor jack would not lift high enough to use the rear centre box (would need the trolley jack) but would work with wood under the sill bungs.
 
For the rear jacking point (the "rear centre box"), I use a block of oak with a 1" depression the size of the jacking point on the top. The block is about 6" tall, and I have it shaped so it fits fairly closely in the lifting pad of my floor jack. That gives me more than enough lift to get the car high enough to work under. Way back when I was fixing them for a living, we had a high lift jack that would put a P6 up high enough that the rear bumper was about chest height. That made access pretty easy.

Yours
Vern
 
Vern Klukas said:
when I was fixing them for a living, we had a high lift jack that would put a P6 up high enough that the rear bumper was about chest height. That made access pretty easy.
Click to expand...
Exactly my experience too Vern! Sitting in the driver seat is also fun at that angle :D
Bespoke wood block is a nice touch.
Jim
 
I think they are referring to where the rear suspension 'frame' that supports spring/vehicle pivots on a bush at junction with main bodywork. this takes lot of weight and thrust of suspension , thus 'ought' to be strong enough to jack from but be wary of where we put the load faces e.g. jack. never work under car without support as jack CAN slip . not worth losing finger or two etc.
NEVER try and lift rear or car on the rear crossmember ( the De Dion tube part) this WILL cause damage and other issues. I dread getting a puncture as not yet tested any normal sill jacking points and hope not to! I may try a seal and pressure type fluid/gas you can buy as a temporary fix if that occurs.
common sense after a while will show you the strongest parts of bodywork as these are nearly always where suspension etc will be fixed to . if area is rust and corrosion free? these should be able to carry such weight as designed for. e.g. load of car /passengers/ luggage etc
corrosion can and will affect strength of metal sections/panels. I found it difficult to put axle /car jacks under for support ( when working under car on rear end) due to lack of strong areas easily available when using jack in same location ( not on rear jacking box)
 
Just to clarify what I'm referring to as the rear crossmember, some early 4 cylinder cars have a different design of course which is less suitable if I remember..

Rover3500S-RS-A.jpg

Top of this picture is the rear crossmember, definitely don't use the deDion tube as classicalgreen mentions.
It is useful if you have a long reach jack but very little space around the car for example
Jim
 
Thanks for that. So where is the deDion tube on that pic - is that the thing at the bottom? (Told you I was clueless on these things).
 
Pictures tell a thousand words :) Yes the tube is at the bottom. Attached to the tube and retaining the rear hubs are the "elbows". These are the component very prone to rusting from the inside out and failing as you may have already know. These are one of the most important things to be checked regularly for signs of corrosion or at worst fatigue especially around the mounting points. If in any doubt about their condition, get them blasted to see exactly what you're dealing with.
Jim
 
the jacking points are tubes with covers over on outer sill. the outer sills are NON load bearing and should be thought of as 'decoration'.
most do not use these 'jacking tubes' as inner rusting ? can occur and unless Very sure of condition, we don't tend to use these as it is a heavy car and we do not want a sudden warping or sagging to occur creating expensive and time consuming damage. let alone worrying about safety.
I think they are all trying to say . where we can..use front chassis cross member ( under sump and towards radiator -heavy gauge but be wary of slip potential?) at rear us either small 'box' like metal that protrudes under rear bumper in centre section.( correct lifting point by the way) do check it is strong enough to support entire weight of rear car as when lifting ( we need a high rise jack) we do NOT want to see a sudden failure etc here. if unsure..? use the inner pivot support points where rear suspension arms are located on body work. these will take the weight unless badly corroded in which case it will fail an MOT if not fall off in use!
spreading weight is a good idea and small blocks of thick ply or hardwood can be useful. bit like ensuring jacking bottom on road? is not going to be pushed into soft tar? concrete is better.
all about doing it safely and in a way we don't risk damage to car as well as self. I always use axle stands when working under it .. on front and rear if need be so I can have all wheels off if I want . car is tested by rocking a bit to ensure it will not slip of axle stands etc.
do NOT use the de dion axle to lift as it WILL cause damage.
though it works well on paper in in practise if ONLY Rover had used jaguar type rear suspension and ignored trying to save unsprung weight sigh added to its inherent 'roll on corners' that it has to have brave or foolish at wheel at speed on a anything other than a large slow bend! throw in last beef.. steering not rack and pinion.. and you basically have the 3 points most rover p6 owners have to say about it ( yes there are more e.g. bleed nipple for rear brakes etc) . otherwise a much underrated car by classic car industry and media.
good luck with anything you want to do. oh if you are thinking of dropping rear diff? ( i did and put back by self) use a trolley jack ..it weight a ton ( well not an actual ton but you try lifting it on own) possibly in 200c ad v8 form, the first real executive cars .now followed by Audi etc
ps: I tend to use rear box lifting /jacking point an then when jack runs out of lift.. shove wood under wheels and lower. then swap to inner rear suspension pivot points for suspension arms . fitting axle stands isn't easy as damn jack is often in way.
 
Well all this waffling on, if you ask me the best way is whip off your outter sills, examine the jacking points and if they are holed or rusty, repair them. There are cheap replacement jacking points available from many parts suppliers. Why oh why do people have these cars and for the want of a bit of work, faff about with trolly jacks, bits of wood etc etc etc. Evey P6 I've had over the years needed some new jacking points, but once done properly, supported the car with no trouble at all, using the Rover P6 jack. For a few hours work to start with, it saved so much hassel in the long run.
 
ghce said:
I am so glad I live in NZ where rust is not the hidden nightmare that it is in the UK, I have used my jacking points every time I have needed to change a tire or swap out disk pads and every other conceivable reason that I needed to lift the car to gain access underneath it.
Perhaps just to add my 10 cents a jacking point restoration would be in order, the benefits are many 1: not having to lift and carry a huge trolley jack 2: not having to get down to sill level to find a place to put your scissor jack (on a busy highway). 3: worry for crushing your sills. 4: balancing the entire car on the rear or front members......
Sure the original jacking point method does have a couple of down sides such a 1: worrying about the head of the jack contacting a door panel (never happens) 2: fore to aft movement on the factory jack is a stability issue you need to be aware of but once you know about it you are golden.
But perhaps the most telling benefit of knowing your original jacking points are 100% is that you will in the process be able to access the inner sill integrity and be more confident in the safety of your classic in the event of an accident.
Click to expand...
Ditto living in Oz, though my car was bought in the UK in 1970 and toured Europe before being shipped home. Had a flat on a freeway in January (valve stem cut, not a puncture) and the OE jack and jacking points worked as they should.
PS its worth checking valve stems from time to time as the hubcaps can rotate on the wheels and sever them. As I recall British police cars were often driven minus hubcaps for that reason.
 
Dangermouse said:
Well all this waffling on, if you ask me the best way is whip off your outter sills, examine the jacking points and if they are holed or rusty, repair them. There are cheap replacement jacking points available from many parts suppliers. Why oh why do people have these cars and for the want of a bit of work, faff about with trolly jacks, bits of wood etc etc etc. Evey P6 I've had over the years needed some new jacking points, but once done properly, supported the car with no trouble at all, using the Rover P6 jack. For a few hours work to start with, it saved so much hassel in the long run.
Click to expand...

Hi, yes that is very true. However, how do you jack them up to repair them?

Colin
 
Whilst it is definitely easier & far quicker to use a trolley jack to lift a car in the manner of the question, I would be very concerned about a car's structural integrity if this method had to be used for other reasons.

The jacking points should be able to support the car on axle stands without issue. I usually support the car on them with bars slotted in the tubes which I was told was how they should be used:

IMG_2052edit.jpg

Whichever method you choose however, please have a back up. I tend to use & substantial block of wood under the floorpan, together with the wheel in the above case. Regrettably we had a local fatality recently; a young lad was working on his Golf when it collapsed on him.
 
Ok just two questions I need answering please.
I am going to invest in a trolley jack I think and a piece of wood.
The questions are:
1. How high does the trolley jack need to be to lift a P6? People keep referring to "high lift" jacks. Halfords have one that lifts to 36cms and another heavier one that lifts to 53cms. Would the 36cm one be sufficient? It appeals because it looks lighter to carry in the boot.
2. What weight does it need to bear? The 36cm-lift one does two tonnes. Sounds plenty to me but is it?
Thanks.
 
Two tonnes is plenty. If you are planning on carrying it in the trunk, I'd recommend a smaller jack and a pad to jack on the floor pan in front on the rear wheels over trying to use the rear jacking point. Otherwise your entire trunk is going to be full of jacking equipment, not to mention the weight.

Yours
Vern
 
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