Hi from Potential p6 owner

D

Deadstar

New Member
Hi all, I am considering buying a P6 TC, I have always wanted a P6. I have previously owned Capri's, scimitars, Triumph Spitfires, MG BGT, and others, but have always wanted a P6. I currently still have a 79 Capri and 84 RX7, both in need of restoration. I'd like some info on the TC P6,

- spares - easily available or not ?
- service schedule - what do people recommend ? any particular service tasks tricky or awkward ?
- any common mechanical issues with these cars that I should look out for ?
- suitable as a daily driver? I ask this question as I have never been one to keep my cars just for the week-end, instead wanting to really enjoy the experience of driving them. My current mileage is about 250-300 a week.

I'd love the 3500 but with mpg being 17 ( or so I have read) don't think my wife would go along with that :(

Thanks in advance
 
Hi Deadstar!

First off, yes the P6 in TC or V8 form is entirely suitable as a daily driver - you may be surprised how modern it feels to drive. The SC's and SC Auto's are a tad on the slow side for modern traffic though. V8's can be much more economical if retrofitted with a 5 speed manual box. The standard 4 speed manual from the V8 is very difficult to rebuild (it's different to the 4 cyl cars) and the auto is an early American slushmatic.

So what are the snags?

Well the most obvious one - and really no worse than any other classic car - is rust! There's an added twist with the P6 though. All the visible body panels - including the roof! - are bolt-ons to an underlying base unit, which is driveable naked with all the panels removed. It is therefore possible to buy a car which looks immaculate but is actually a terminal rust bucket. Read up elsewhere on this site and if possible take someone with you who knows about P6's. The upside to this is that it's arguably easier to deal with the rust cos its all ultimately hidden and you can use DIY paint finishes and not worry too much about weld marks. And you can spray the panels one by one off the car.

Mechanically parts are pretty good with some exceptions. Clearly the V8 engine is easy because it is still almost current. The 4 cylinders have some interesting issues but are completely rebuildable. Valve clearance setting is awkward (bucket tappets with shims) and if neglected will quickly result in burnt valves. You should expect to change main bearings and big end shells at say 80k. Most suffer from some degree of front end tinckle thanks to a two stage chain drive to the cam and less than perfect tensioners.

There are two versions of the TC - 2000 and 2200. The latter is a much better engine, having lower compression (the 2000 is 10.5:1 and needs 5 star fuel or additives) and bigger valves. Both need lead additive unless they have had the valves and seats changed. There are other advantages to the 2200 too. The gearbox is notably better having a proper remote change (and if you don't like the long gearlever that comes along with it you can change it for a shorter one) and some internal improvements.

This seems to point to a 2200TC as the ideal version. BUT the later the car the worse the rust is likely to be. It's not clear why; perhaps the steel quality in later cars is poorer or perhaps sales were such that base units sat around outside before going down the line. In essence anything after late '72 or early '73 is notably more rust prone than earlier cars. If you wanted a late 2200TC it would need to be either very low mileage, or Ziebarted from new, or already properly rebuilt. Cars pre '71 are touted as series 1 and have less bright trim on the outside but more importantly a strip speedo and separate rev counter instead of the superb instrument cluster in the later cars. On the other hand they feel more period.

The ideal is probably a 2000TC from about '71 that has had a 2200TC engine and box fitted!

The only extra that really counts is a boot mounted spare wheel. Without this the boot can be rather small for normal use if you have kids. But it is easily retro fitted. Leather upholstery is always more desirable than cloth, but again it is very easy to swap interiors. The most desirable is box pleat leather, ridges and troughs running the full depth and height of the seat. But I find flat pleat very comfortable.

Ride comfort is superb, up to best limo standard. This is partly at the expense of a bit of roll and lurch on entering a corner. High speed handling is superb and completely neutral. Suspension tuning and brake upgrade parts are readily available (although the brakes are already excellent by modern standards - astonishing for a car of its time).

The only other hazardous job is the inboard rear calipers.They have a complex system of levers to allow the handbrake to operate through the same pads as the footbrake, and will be a pain to fix if previously neglected. Also the pistons are prone to regular leakage - get the bores sleeved in stainless and you can then forget them.

Hope that encourages you!

Chris
 
Many Thanks for your reply - I really didn't expect so much information. If the 3500 has an updated gear-box, how easy are they to source? prices? is it s straigh forward swop ? and how big an improvement in mpg ? My wife would kill me if she thought I was still thinking about a 3500 lol but your answers may give me a chance or might just confirm thaqt it's going to be a 2200 TC

Once again, thanks for your help, its much appreciated :)
 
My 3500 auto (series 1 - H reg) regularly returns 22+ mpg without trying; 4 cylinders should do (a little) more. I wouldn't personally mess about with a car unless it was shot as you'd have to travel a large mileage to recoup your investment, but it's each to their own I suppose.

Factor in £nil road tax for the earlier cars & cheap insurance & they can be very cheap cars to run. Don't but a shed though - as Chris states - all panels are bolt on & can be hiding rust although this is probably not so common now. Take someone with you if you can who knows the P6.

Particular easy checks are under the rear seat which lifts out by pulling the front edge up. Look at the box section near the sill - if it's all crumbly just walk away as (proper) repair is time consuming. Also, put your hand up inside the front wheel arch & grab the innermost of 2 ribs. This is part of the base unit & again, if it's crumbly, the car will be shot. Another easy view is where the rear suspension 'top links' attach to the boot walls. Peel the side boot carpet back & look at the fixings - they could be corroded all the way round - probably not terminal if the rest of the car is good.

It's also worth noting that some cars seem to be better in some places than others for no apparent reason. I have an early 2000 with perfect boot walls; it's just the rest of the car that was hopeless. :LOL:

However, they are superbly engineered cars, will handle modern traffic with ease & are relatively cheap to buy & maintain. Get a good one & you will really enjoy it as a daily driver. I've used them as such for 21 years now & have done more than 100,000 pretty trouble free miles. :D
 
To clarify the gearbox discussion on the 3500. The update to a five speed box is a modern retro fit. But many cars have had it done and it is common to find cars for sale on Ebay already modified in this way. In this country the gearbox normally used is the LT77 box out of the SD1, 5spd Triumphs, all manual Land Rover products, LDV vans etc etc - It became the standard BL gearbox. It is also possible to use its successor the R380 and there are some cars with Toyota Supra boxes, although most of these are in Australia and New Zealand.

For the P6 the mod is easiest on a 3500 Auto because they have more room in the transmission tunnel. By coincidence the auto propshaft is also the right length for the LT77 (ie shorter than the 4 spd manual). But it is possible on a 3500 manual as well. There are no bellhousings available for the 4 cyl to LT77, but there is a complete kit available off the shelf from New Zealand to fit a 5 spd Toyota box, retailing at around £1,700 plus shipping.

You might expect to get around 26 - 29 mpg from a TC (either 2000 or 2200), around 22 mpg from a 3500 Auto, around 25 mpg from a 3500 4spd, and around 26 - 28 mpg from a 3500 5spd. All assuming you don't cane it and have a reasonable mix of driving. So better if you do a lot of motorway miles, worse if all you do is go to the shops.

My personal advice would be that an already 5 spd converted 3500 is pretty much equivalent to a 2200TC engined 4 cyl and I would buy one or the other based purely on condition rather than looking for a particular model or year. Others may disagree - cars are personal things!

Insurance through one of the specialist classic car insures should come out at a tad over £100/yr fully comp and unlimited mileage unless there's something unusual about your circumstances eg very young, high crime area etc. Any car built prior to 1973 will also be road tax exempt.

Chris
 
Well once again Thanks you for your help. The mpg figures are much better than I expected, this means that I can now look for either model :) I'll let you know when I get one.
 
Hi Deadstar

I've been running my 1972 3500S 4 spd daily since I got it 2 months ago and my weekly mileage is similar to yours. I'm getting 26mpg regularly and closer to 30mpg on motorway driving at 70ish. They are great cars to drive and a great conversation starter. I'm constantly finding little jobs on the car take forever because people will stop and chat about the car. Happy hunting and take your time to get the right car. It's very easy to get caught up in the moment when looking at these cars and buy the first nice one you find. I agree with Chris that it's better to find one in good condition than look for a particular model. Good luck and I look forward to seeing pics of your new P6 when you get it.

Dave
 
Well I took the plunge and bought a 2.2 TC - I'll be collecting the car this week-end ( providing it's not a rust bucket) I'll post some photos next week. Could anyone tell me :-

Grade of oil to use?
Service intervals, 3k, 5 k etc ?
Which plugs ?

I intend to service the car as soon as its home and get down to business with waxoil :)

Thanks in advance
 
Deadstar said:
Grade of oil to use?
Service intervals, 3k, 5 k etc ?
Which plugs ?
Click to expand...

20/50
3k, but that's only a levels check and check FWA, 6k is clean/adjust plugs etc, 12k is replace, all according to the schedules of the time, but with limited mileages now that tends to change.
Champion N7YC or equivalent.

Looking forward to seeing it.
 
Wouldn't you recommend weekly checks on the fluid levels until he knows if it's a leaker ?
People these days don't look under the bonnet in between service periods
 
DaveHerns said:
Wouldn't you recommend weekly checks on the fluid levels until he knows if it's a leaker ?
People these days don't look under the bonnet in between service periods
Click to expand...

Yes, but I would expect anyone to do that with a new (to them) car, all I did was answer his questions.
 
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