Have I damaged my torque converter?

Philippe Holland

Philippe Holland

Member
Hello,
I've just swapped BW35 gearboxes as I had a reverse gear problem.
It seems that the 'pronged nose' on the torque converter did not align properly with the oil pump on the gearbox. The box pulled squarely onto the block and tightened up without too much pressure, but it was only when trying to start the car did I realise that the started ring was 'crushed' against the block.
My first question is: Have I damaged the torque converter? It seems to have a semi flexible mounting and hopefully has only been compressed.
Second question is: Do I have to remove the box completely to align the pump or can I slide it back and then turn the converter over to align the parts.
And the third is: Please tell me I'm not the only person in the world to have made this mistake?!
Many thanks,
Philippe
 
Oh dear!, what can I say?
Well here goes, Q1) you won't really know what damage you have done without taking the box out, but you could try realigning it in situ but it will probably be more awkward and take longer than taking it out again,because you won't be able to see the position of the pump,and you may well have permanently distorted the flex plate, and that sort of answers Q2 as well.
As for Q3, you're not the first, and you won't be the last either, being told how to do something is a world away from actually being able to do it, and there is no substitute for experience, so if the first one you do is on your own without help from someone with previous knowledge you've done a lot better than some who can't get the box back in at all!
My own personal view, and I'm sure there will be those who disagree, is bite the bullet, take it out, check everything that could have got damaged, align everything properly and try again.
In addition to all the above, there are 2 types of converter and bellhousing, early converters must be used with early bellhousings, later converters can be used with either bellhousing, but later is better.
Also I would say in my experience the method of fitting can make life difficult if done in the wrong order.I would suggest, fit converter to flexplate, then fit bellhousing to engine, then fit gearbox to bellhousing and T/C. If you fit the T/C and then try to fit the gearbox with the bellhousing fitted to it, it becomes impossible to see and line up the front pump.The normal result of trying to do it this way is damage to the front pump seal.
Good Luck.
 
Thanks Harvey for the advice...I'll take it apart again and check it out for damage...As you say, going by the book is one thing, having real life experience is another...the workshop manual does not mention the need for extra slim hands and the impossible to see hiden bellhousing bolts behind the filler tube.
Because I'd bought a used box with the converter bell housing attached, I presumed that the whole unit had to be changed 'with' the bellhousing....and what a job it was...
Many thanks again for taking the time to explain it to me. I'll take the box off the converter housing tommorrow night and check for flex plate and seal damage.
As the saying goes...'no pain, no gain'
Best regards,
Philippe
 
Hi Dave, you can, (and you have to on a BW65), but it's a whole lot heavier, and you have to make sure the converter doesn't move forward out of engagement with the pump as you lift it in.It's not the way I choose to do it, but everyone can make their own choice.
 
Good point about what manuals say vs experience and how to actually do a job. Both the Haynes manual and the BL workshop manual say fit convertor to flywheel and then fit the box to the engine (for BW65 box). They omit to mention the foul between the starter motor boss and the transmission tunnel that makes this virtually impossible!
However a reply to one of my postings (possibly from Dave Herns?) suggested fitting the convertor to the gearbox first. I've tried it - it's heavier, but it's quicker and easier.
As for clamping the flywheel to the engine, I did it times before getting it right. There was no way I was going to take the box off and strip it, so I carried on. The box seems to be ok (only 30 miles done so far though!)
Mike
 
Here's the update...I took the box off again, but this time removed it from the bell housing rather than removing it and the bell housing as one unit from the engine. I saved a huge amount of time and aggro. The two lower bolts needed to be undone a flat at a time which was a pain and I also needed to remove the gear linkage at the top and front of the box which was blocking acces to one bolt. I also undid the engine stabiliser going to the left hand side inner wing which was straining when the engine was lowered from the gearbox support.
As soon as the box came away the flex plate decompressed and returned to its normal position. There is now about 3mm clearance between it and the back of the block when looking upwards with the lower half moon plate removed from the bottom of the bell housing. I turned the engine over a few times and everything looked ok. Fitting the box back was easy enough after aligning the gearbox pump and it slid up to mate the bell housing without problems.
I have refitted everything but I have a problem still. When I tried to start the car with the flex plate blocked against the engine, I had a takatakataka sound as if the starter motor was not engaging the starter ring on the flex plate.When the box was not fitted properly it was so stuck that it is normal that nothing moved. With the engine now turning freely I have again the same problem. I swapped over starter motors thinking that I had burnt out the original one, but have the same issue. I've put the battery on charge as it sounds like a low current problem.
Could the inhibitor switch be causing me problems? I took it off the old box, but did not adjust anything.
Also I noticed an earth strap coming off the back of the box which I bolted to the rear gearbox mount. I cleaned up the mating surface and it seems ok.
To repeat the problem: When I try to start the car, I have a takatakataka sound as if the starter gear is not engaing the starter ring (like a low battery problem).
The engine turns over easily enough (screwdriver on the starter ring against the exhaust, with the lower bell housing cover off)
Any thoughts or advice greatly appreciated!
Cheers,
Philippe
 
Hi, Philippe, if you're actually getting a supply as far as the solenoid, it won't be the inhibitor switch, as that interrupts the circuit so the car won't start.
 
"Takatakataka" sounds like the noise mine makes when the battery is low.
Try charging the battery overnight and try again.

Mike
 
Success! After swopping starter motors over and then solenoids from the starter motors and cleaning all contacts Enzo finally coughed into life. My takatakakatka had turned into a click...click...nothing. I replaced the original starter motor and solenoid and all of a sudden my click turned into a whoomph...hooray! And best of all it seems I've got reverse as well on my unknown gearbox from Beaulieu! It seems that the error I made mating the box to the engine, crushing the flexplate has caused no damage and when I check the plate spinning with the engine running all is inline and true....
Many thanks guys for the moral support and advice, it was greatly appreciated.
More posts soon...:D
Philippe
 
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