gearbox noise
- Thread starter pat180269
- Start date
Demetris
Well-Known Member
pat180269 said:
That can be true for old/worn/claped out gearboxes, but new or properly rebuilt ones should be quiet.
When i got my TC with unknown mileage, the lower gears were audible, but not alarmingly so. After a replacement of almost all the bearings (i kept the rear mainshaft one, as it wasn't bad at all and i could not find a new one) it was quiet in all gears. 75K miles later it is still quiet, if you are careful you can hear a rather faint whine in 1st and 2nd with the engine between 1000 and 1500 rpm, but i i can't call it a noise. I also kept the original clutch release bearing, which is still fine.
pat180269 said:
Just keep in mind that 2200 TCs are supposed to be notably more civilised in comparison with 2000 TCs. :wink:
pat180269 said:
I think you're starting to clutch at straws.......
If the running clearance was too tight you'd get clutch drag and spin, if it was too loose then the weight of the centre plate on the input shaft would pull the front of the shaft downwards, but that would only happen when your foot was on the clutch, when it isn't the plate is clamped between the pressure plate and the flywheel. Lots of FWD cars don't even have a spigot bearing.
happy days
Active Member
Read this with interest, when you have driven the series 1 2000TC you will want to sell yours lol
My gearbox sounds exactly like this one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNwLEd2harI
listen to the juddering sound from 6:30 onwards
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNwLEd2harI
listen to the juddering sound from 6:30 onwards
Demetris
Well-Known Member
pat180269 said:
Probably you meant at 3:05? Both the judder and the whine sound bad for a P6, but probably normal for a series 2 Land Rover!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFt7nWltFRE&feature=related
There are good reasons why the "new" box might be distressed. If it has sat around for 30 years without oil in it waiting to be used, you'd expect the bearing races to have picked up some corrosion.... Alternatively it could be one of the early spec boxes with plain bearings inside.....
So my advice would be to renew all the bearings in your "new" box.
Clutch judder is an entirely different issue though. The first thing you need to do is to get all the mountings in the drive train in tip top order. That is, engine mounts X 2, rear gearbox mount, front diff extension mount, rear diff mounts X 2. And check the rear diff mounting bracket for cracks while you're at it! Next step is to grease the sliding joint in the prop shaft. Then renew all 6 UJ's on principle. You can't tell whether they are OK or not without at the very minimum having the affected shaft down so you can try the UJ's throughout both their axis of movement. And personally I'd say the only way to really know if they are OK or not is to strip them, by which time you might as well fit new ones anyway!
If there's still some residual judder check the bushes in the de dion top arm at the elbow and at the boot side.
And if the diff rear mounts were U/S (and it would be astonishing if the N/S one isn't!) then there's an excellent chance that the panhard rod bushes will have been overworked and also need doing.
Finally, if all else fails, give the clutch a real good burn out and see if you can de-glaze the friction surfaces!
Chris
So my advice would be to renew all the bearings in your "new" box.
Clutch judder is an entirely different issue though. The first thing you need to do is to get all the mountings in the drive train in tip top order. That is, engine mounts X 2, rear gearbox mount, front diff extension mount, rear diff mounts X 2. And check the rear diff mounting bracket for cracks while you're at it! Next step is to grease the sliding joint in the prop shaft. Then renew all 6 UJ's on principle. You can't tell whether they are OK or not without at the very minimum having the affected shaft down so you can try the UJ's throughout both their axis of movement. And personally I'd say the only way to really know if they are OK or not is to strip them, by which time you might as well fit new ones anyway!
If there's still some residual judder check the bushes in the de dion top arm at the elbow and at the boot side.
And if the diff rear mounts were U/S (and it would be astonishing if the N/S one isn't!) then there's an excellent chance that the panhard rod bushes will have been overworked and also need doing.
Finally, if all else fails, give the clutch a real good burn out and see if you can de-glaze the friction surfaces!
Chris
Hi Chris thanks that's useful.
Can you ( or anyone else ) recommend someone who can do the gearbox work? Are the bearings readily available ?
The judder is not clutch judder its a judder when coming off the power - drive train judder, clutch is all new. I was already thinking along the lines of your suggestions
Pat
Can you ( or anyone else ) recommend someone who can do the gearbox work? Are the bearings readily available ?
The judder is not clutch judder its a judder when coming off the power - drive train judder, clutch is all new. I was already thinking along the lines of your suggestions
Pat
Mmmm I suppose it's in the degree, Demetris.
My standard procedure for bedding in new brake pads is to let the speed build to around 50 ish on a nice little 1 in 4 hill I know (that's very steep in Euro speak) and then do a series of emergency stops until the discs are red. As long as you keep moving afterwards to allow the discs to cool evenly, that produces a massively better brake.
With clutches, my father certainly practised the "lets see if we can make it smoke" technique to cure clutch judder - and he was Rover service dep't trained. In fact the same hill, this time pointing up, held on the clutch until the desired effect was achieved.
Maybe I'm just not up to date with my friction materials....
Chris
My standard procedure for bedding in new brake pads is to let the speed build to around 50 ish on a nice little 1 in 4 hill I know (that's very steep in Euro speak) and then do a series of emergency stops until the discs are red. As long as you keep moving afterwards to allow the discs to cool evenly, that produces a massively better brake.
With clutches, my father certainly practised the "lets see if we can make it smoke" technique to cure clutch judder - and he was Rover service dep't trained. In fact the same hill, this time pointing up, held on the clutch until the desired effect was achieved.
Maybe I'm just not up to date with my friction materials....
Chris
By way of an update to this post to anyone reading with similar problems....
The box has now been overhauled by a classic gearbox specialist. He said the box is new and is in as new condition.
However he has replaced both front and rear laygear bearings and main shaft bearing which were noisy. He can only put it down to the box being sat with no oil in for 40 years. Bearings which were fitted ( by Rover ) were in his words top quality so can't see why they are noisy.
Anyway +1 to Harvey with another successful diagnosis !
The box has now been overhauled by a classic gearbox specialist. He said the box is new and is in as new condition.
However he has replaced both front and rear laygear bearings and main shaft bearing which were noisy. He can only put it down to the box being sat with no oil in for 40 years. Bearings which were fitted ( by Rover ) were in his words top quality so can't see why they are noisy.
Anyway +1 to Harvey with another successful diagnosis !
An update on this ...... and its not good news.
Over winter I removed the engine and box and sent the NOS gearbox to a local gearbox specialist for inspection. He replaced two bearings which he said where noisy although they looked ok. Having refitted everything the noise in the lower gears was gone.
Since than I have covered probably 100 miles and the problems are back. Noise in the lower gears and when warm noise in neutral which goes away when the clutch is pressed.
Just to recap, the original box in the car when bought had these noises. The NOS box I fitted had these noises and the NOS box with new bearings now has these noises again. I have asked on here before if this is a characteristic of these boxes and the consensus was its not. I realise I might be judging a 40 year old car with the standards of today but did people really put up with this back in the day ?
If it's not a characteristic what on earth is going on ?
Pat
Over winter I removed the engine and box and sent the NOS gearbox to a local gearbox specialist for inspection. He replaced two bearings which he said where noisy although they looked ok. Having refitted everything the noise in the lower gears was gone.
Since than I have covered probably 100 miles and the problems are back. Noise in the lower gears and when warm noise in neutral which goes away when the clutch is pressed.
Just to recap, the original box in the car when bought had these noises. The NOS box I fitted had these noises and the NOS box with new bearings now has these noises again. I have asked on here before if this is a characteristic of these boxes and the consensus was its not. I realise I might be judging a 40 year old car with the standards of today but did people really put up with this back in the day ?
If it's not a characteristic what on earth is going on ?
Pat
christopher storey
Member
I do wonder, given the strange history, whether there is not something which is "telegraphing" normal gear noise when the layout of the engine, box and transmission components settles down a short while after everything has been dismantled . It is quite amazing the noise which can be generated by the most marginal touching of exhaust pipes against any part of the monocoque, and the same goes for eg metallic parts of metalastik bushes touching each other because the rubber is worn . There are rather a lot of these in the P6 , but obvious ones to look at are the rubber bush which has the transverse support rod at the back of the gearbox through its centre ; the rear gearbox spring mounting etc ; and also if your car has the exhaust which has a flange which attaches to the base of the gearbox , whether this connection is causing something to touch . Also, and this has been said before, if any part of the soundproofing above the gearbox fails e.g. torn gearbox or handbrake gaiter or similar, the increase in noise is very considerable, and these aspects are again something which are disturbed if the gearbox is removed/replaced
Edit : looking at your pictures, you have the later type remote control. I wonder whether, if the gearbox is set too high on the spring, part of the remote control may be touching to body / transmission tunnel etc
Edit : looking at your pictures, you have the later type remote control. I wonder whether, if the gearbox is set too high on the spring, part of the remote control may be touching to body / transmission tunnel etc