Fuel pump woes
- Thread starter V8P6B
- Start date
The empty fuel filter is a necessary but not completely sufficient occurance in order to lay the cause directly at the feet of fuel vapourisation. The additional symptoms though certainly seem to suggest that could be the likely outcome.
The use of Winter grade fuel on a warmer than usual day for this time of year can could certainly precipitate such an event. V8P6B,..what was the ambient temperature when it occured?
The other factor that needs to be considered is the use of ethanol blended fuel which from my understanding seems to be now without choice for U.K motorists.
Ron.
The use of Winter grade fuel on a warmer than usual day for this time of year can could certainly precipitate such an event. V8P6B,..what was the ambient temperature when it occured?
The other factor that needs to be considered is the use of ethanol blended fuel which from my understanding seems to be now without choice for U.K motorists.
Ron.
One possible conclusion could be that the problem is worse with a near empty tank?
On that basis it couldn't hurt to renew the O ring in the reserve tap, just in case the current one is beginning to break up and partially obstruct the passages. Also to drop the tank level switch and fuel pick up assembly and have a look to see if the nylon filkter assembly is OK and there isn't any other potential blocakage there. And of course, the afore mentioned blow back down all the tubes.
All that on the theory that if there is any partial blockage the problem is bound to be worse.
Then you're on to the hot engine bay. I'm sure it helps if the bonnet isn't too good a fit towards the rear corners, so as to leave some gaps at the side to let heat out. Likewise that the underbonnet blanket is nice and tight up to the bonnet and doesn't block the side exits over the inner wings. Of course you also need to be sure that the cooling system is working correctly. Here a check of the coolant flow out from the carburettor tower might be a good idea. And don't forget that the engine bay can run hotter than usual if the engine tune is off - but at 20 mpg yours sounds as if it's thereabout.
And if it still persists after that lot, you're on to the dreaded electric pump!
Chris
On that basis it couldn't hurt to renew the O ring in the reserve tap, just in case the current one is beginning to break up and partially obstruct the passages. Also to drop the tank level switch and fuel pick up assembly and have a look to see if the nylon filkter assembly is OK and there isn't any other potential blocakage there. And of course, the afore mentioned blow back down all the tubes.
All that on the theory that if there is any partial blockage the problem is bound to be worse.
Then you're on to the hot engine bay. I'm sure it helps if the bonnet isn't too good a fit towards the rear corners, so as to leave some gaps at the side to let heat out. Likewise that the underbonnet blanket is nice and tight up to the bonnet and doesn't block the side exits over the inner wings. Of course you also need to be sure that the cooling system is working correctly. Here a check of the coolant flow out from the carburettor tower might be a good idea. And don't forget that the engine bay can run hotter than usual if the engine tune is off - but at 20 mpg yours sounds as if it's thereabout.
And if it still persists after that lot, you're on to the dreaded electric pump!
Chris
most 97 octane super doesnt have ethanol in it apparently...
Other thing worth doing is what made a huge difference to PAE's running was blowing an airline back up the fuel pipe! There were interludes where i thought it had vapourisation but when after a few months off the road i took it for MOT it ground to a halt outside the mot station.
Airline up the fuel pipe really helped it's running afterwards.
Right, well that lot's given me a good list to wade through, so I'll check it out, so thanks for all your advice. There are a few things I've already done, like unblock the coolant pipe at the carb tower, that was blocked solid; this was done some time ago, so was running freely prior to the recent problem. I think the cooling system could probably do with a flush, although it has had a new upgraded radiator. The ambient temp on the day was well above 22deg C, and the car temp gauge sits steady just above the 85deg half way, probably about 90deg, so slightly high maybe? I notice it does creep slightly higher than that if I'm sitting in traffic with the engine running, although it never overheats. I'm seriously considering fitting an electric cooling fan and getting rid of the fixed one, as the fixed one is usually spinning at tickover when the cooling is needed more, and spinning at 3000rpm when you're blasting down the motorway and don't need it :roll:
I usually run the car on either V-power or tesco 99 and put millers VSP additive in when I remember to which isn't very often
and the car was over half full when I had the problem.
I'll blow the fuel lines out as soon as I have run it low on fuel, although when its being driven, there are no problems, and I haven't as yet had any problems sitting in traffic. The only time there has been a problem, and this was the first time, was after being taken on a long run, and then immediately parked in hot sunshine.
I'll let you know my findings as I go...
I usually run the car on either V-power or tesco 99 and put millers VSP additive in when I remember to which isn't very often
and the car was over half full when I had the problem.I'll blow the fuel lines out as soon as I have run it low on fuel, although when its being driven, there are no problems, and I haven't as yet had any problems sitting in traffic. The only time there has been a problem, and this was the first time, was after being taken on a long run, and then immediately parked in hot sunshine.
I'll let you know my findings as I go...
darth sidious
New Member
rockdemon said:
From my understanding, it does... even VPower, which once 'boasted' to not have any ethanol, now does contain some. Unless I've misread and/or misinterpreted, it's actually insisted upon by the UK government!
darth sidious
New Member
rockdemon said:
Which one(s) may I ask?
I've been looking at the web, and one site (http://www.sam-manicom.com/2012/03/a-question-of-ethanol/) overall (i.e. says most super premium petrol and does not currently) supports what you say:-
It was confirmed that most super premium petrol (i.e. octane quality of 97(RON) or above) does not currently contain any ethanol.
In addition, some 95 RON fuels are supplied in UK without any ethanol content. The UK distribution network means that garages may get fuel from any of the refineries and the ethanol is added when the fuel is put into the tanker. This introduces an inconsistency such that not even the garage selling the fuel knows whether the fuel contains any ethanol, only that is has been supplied as compliant with BS EN 228 (max 5% ethanol and no minimum level).
But this site, http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/news/biofuels.html seems to contradict that.
Future legal requirements for biofuels
Currently fuel companies are permitted and, from 2010, will be legally obliged to mix five per cent bioethanol with 95 per cent petrol and five per cent biodiesel with 95 per cent conventional diesel. Mixes at these levels will not do any damage to fuel systems, nor require any adjustments, and will be a standard ingredient of the fuel. Renault and Peugeot-Citroen are now offering some of their vehicles with the ability to use B30 - a 30 per cent biodiesel/70 per cent conventional diesel mix.
Biofuels may help to ease our reliance on fossil fuels and biodiesel is an excellent way of reusing waste cooking oil, but at current rates of fuel use they are not the complete answer. There is simply not sufficient land to grow enough crops for both food and fuel.
I know it doesn't specify super unleaded, but it doesn't say that super unleaded is exempt of the ethanol either...
I've started a new thread within the Lounge covering ethanol in fuels.
Ron.
Ron.
The Rovering Member
Well-Known Member
I fitted a Facet electric pump to my P5B. It is purely backup but has come in handy when cold-starting through the winter. The mechanical pump pulls through it perfectly happily when it's switched off.
ghce said:
Well, the car's not been touched for a couple of weeks, and I started it today, and have to say that it started up after about 5 seconds of cranking, which was much better than previously, although I can't say whether the fuel pump rebuild is entirely to thank, as I did have a slightly frayed earth lead on the battery in the boot, which I've now replaced, as it was getting hot when cranking for a long time (noticed when it broke down), so it may be a combination of the two. (It cranks quicker now)
I have invested in an electric pump (facet) to use purely if a vapourlock occurs, as some have done on here, but I haven't fitted it yet, as I need to run the fuel out first.
Update on this thread, which will soon be more related to a cooling issue?? Went out yesterday for a 65 mile trip, and the temp gauge was reading about 90deg on the gauge. After a 10 mile blast down a dual carriageway at about 65, traffic slowed to a traffic jam, really slow, stop/start/mostly stop around Chichester on the A27 (Maybe Festival of speed related). Anyway, the car started getting a wee bit warm, temp gauge wandered up to about 2/3, which is the hottest I've ever seen it. It didn't boil, or lose any water, but I could sense the engine was misfiring through lack of fuel when moving off from a stop. I managed to pull the car off the road, and just as I'd cleared the verge, the engine cut, & wouldn't restart. It did restart after about 1/2 an hour of sitting withthe bonnet up.
I admit, although I have bought a facet electric fuel pump, I haven't fitted it yet.. so that's on the cards very soon, but my concern is the slight overheat. I've been through the cooling system, flushed out the heater matrix, as that wasn't getting hot, but it didn't make any difference. I've also replaced all the coolant hoses recently with a new set from Geoff at Wins, but the engine still seems to get a bit warm. It's ok driving along, but as soon as you get stuck in traffic, it gets hot, and the fuel vapourisation problem occurs.
Things I've done so far:-
Flushed out the heater matrix, although I haven't done the engine yet, that'll be next
Replaced hoses, as the old ones were looking a bit ripe
Checked timing & mixture, but engine runs spot on,
Unblocked the water pipe connection on the carb tower, that was well & truly clogged,
I had the rad recored during the resto, as it was leaking before. I didn't get a 3 row core put in, but I did get (on advice of the radiator man) a high efficiency core, which is finer and has more cooling fins .
I want to fit an electric fan, as I only have the fixed one at the moment, but that and the electric pump are next on the list.
I don't get any issues during normal driving, although since changing the hoses, the engine seems to run hotter for some reason. I ran it at about 1500 rpm for a few mins after refilling, with the rad cap off, until all the air seemed to be out of the system.
I guess that leaves me with the thermostat, and the radiator cap. I also checked the timing again today, and it was spot on, but like I said, the engine overheat/fuel vapourisation only happens now when stuck in a traffic jam. Any advice? Can thermostats partially fail?
I admit, although I have bought a facet electric fuel pump, I haven't fitted it yet..
so that's on the cards very soon, but my concern is the slight overheat. I've been through the cooling system, flushed out the heater matrix, as that wasn't getting hot, but it didn't make any difference. I've also replaced all the coolant hoses recently with a new set from Geoff at Wins, but the engine still seems to get a bit warm. It's ok driving along, but as soon as you get stuck in traffic, it gets hot, and the fuel vapourisation problem occurs. Things I've done so far:-
Flushed out the heater matrix, although I haven't done the engine yet, that'll be next
Replaced hoses, as the old ones were looking a bit ripe
Checked timing & mixture, but engine runs spot on,
Unblocked the water pipe connection on the carb tower, that was well & truly clogged,
I had the rad recored during the resto, as it was leaking before. I didn't get a 3 row core put in, but I did get (on advice of the radiator man) a high efficiency core, which is finer and has more cooling fins .
I want to fit an electric fan, as I only have the fixed one at the moment, but that and the electric pump are next on the list.
I don't get any issues during normal driving, although since changing the hoses, the engine seems to run hotter for some reason. I ran it at about 1500 rpm for a few mins after refilling, with the rad cap off, until all the air seemed to be out of the system.
I guess that leaves me with the thermostat, and the radiator cap. I also checked the timing again today, and it was spot on, but like I said, the engine overheat/fuel vapourisation only happens now when stuck in a traffic jam. Any advice? Can thermostats partially fail?
stina
New Member
Hi , an expansion tank is a good place to start , and cheep enough , mgb one will do the job , usually plenty on ebay around the 15 quid mark . Then you just need a blank cap and a pipe to connect it to the over flow . It allows you to keep the rad full at all times and also another liter or so of coolant in the system . Plus the top few inches of the rad are being used to cool the coolant rather than being empty :wink:
Ps if you already have one fitted you'll know all this any way :roll:
Ps if you already have one fitted you'll know all this any way :roll:
Cheers Guys.
I've followed your links, Stina, and bought the pacet fan and the controller, so hopefully I can get that fitted soon. I'll get an MGB header tank to fit as well, cos my staedy state coolant level is a good inch below the top of the rad, I did notice the core was cool at the top when I was looking at it waiting for it to cool down yesterday.
Stina, did you have to chop a slot out of the lower tray front edge to get your fan to fit? Got any nice pics of your install?
I've followed your links, Stina, and bought the pacet fan and the controller, so hopefully I can get that fitted soon. I'll get an MGB header tank to fit as well, cos my staedy state coolant level is a good inch below the top of the rad, I did notice the core was cool at the top when I was looking at it waiting for it to cool down yesterday.
Stina, did you have to chop a slot out of the lower tray front edge to get your fan to fit? Got any nice pics of your install?
The electric fan is undoubtedly a good move as is the coolant header tank.
Yes, now is a good moment to change the thermostat on principle. Don't forget that the one you fit needs to have a pilot hole in the plain ring surrounding the stat proper of about 1/8 diameter. Perfectly acceptable to drill your own! The hole then needs to be placed at about 12:00 looking from the front of the car.
Also spend a lot of time bleeding the engine before you finally box it up. Run it up to temperature so that the stat is definitely open. Then, with the radiator cap off, alternately rev and idle the engine until you are quite sure that all air has been expelled from the system. On mine it can take up to 20 mins.!
Chris
Yes, now is a good moment to change the thermostat on principle. Don't forget that the one you fit needs to have a pilot hole in the plain ring surrounding the stat proper of about 1/8 diameter. Perfectly acceptable to drill your own! The hole then needs to be placed at about 12:00 looking from the front of the car.
Also spend a lot of time bleeding the engine before you finally box it up. Run it up to temperature so that the stat is definitely open. Then, with the radiator cap off, alternately rev and idle the engine until you are quite sure that all air has been expelled from the system. On mine it can take up to 20 mins.!
Chris