De Dion boot replacement and MOT

#1
Gentlemen,

I think I know the answer but will still ask, I'm checking my P6 for its MOT and have found a hole at the base of the De Dion Gaiter which means I currently have no oil in the tube so its needs replacing, will this fail the MOT.
I have considered sealing with a sealer temporarily if I can clean it, thoughts please.

Martin P
 
#2
Gentlemen,

Forgot to ask, where can I buy the kit from, I have a place I'm going to on my way to Portsmouth tomorrow but just in case where else can I get it.

Thanks,

Martin P
 

keynsham1

Active Member
#4
There ared a lot of posts about this. The gaitor is only a dust cover. The seal is on the tube itself. If the oil has leaked out of the hole in the gaitor, then the seals must be shot as oil shouldn't be able to get there (Assuming it isn't a grease filled tube!). Try looking at the drain hole in the suspension elbow as well for signs of oil? I did this job recently and removed the complete tube when the car was on ramps, and with a few axle stands here and there. It didn't really move, but I wouldn't lean sideways on the car when the tube is off! Is your tube an oil or grease filled one? I am told that the grease filled ones have no oil filler plug at the rear centre top location. Makes sense! I wouldn't assume it is either without checking as all tubes fit all cars and I expect there has been a certain amount of mix and match over the years!
 
#5
Keynsham1 & vaultsman,

Thanks for info, I must admit there is no sign of oil its all dry I just have a split gaitor. Its an oil filled series 1.
Would it not be worth the effort to replace the seals and regarding the point of not leaning on the car I assume this is so I dont spread the wheels, a well placed rachet strap would retain the assembly when I remove the tube surely.

My ramps are higher than standard and I have lots of room why would I need axle stands?

Thanks again,

Martin P
 

colnerov

Well-Known Member
#7
Hi, having looked at the MOT guidelines the only mention about suspension
is broken springs and leaking shock absorbers. So it shouldn't fail on this
gaiter, you might however get an advise.
 

harveyp6

Well-Known Member
#8
colnerov said:
Hi, having looked at the MOT guidelines the only mention about suspension
is broken springs and leaking shock absorbers. So it shouldn't fail on this
gaiter, you might however get an advise.

If I remember correctly it will fail for the same reason that ball joints with split boots can fail.
 

colnerov

Well-Known Member
#9
Hi, having checked again because you have got me thinking Harvey, this time I
checked under steering and it specifically says " split dust covers, check for wear
but advise " It is not my intention to start an argument, I just think there is a
lot mystery around MOT's

http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual_220.htm
 

harveyp6

Well-Known Member
#10
You won't get an argument out of me. The MOT has changed a lot since I was doing 2 or 3 P6 tests a week, so it's quite possible that it's not the same as it was then. We certainly failed them on it when I was at the Main Stealer in the 70's.
As for the mystery around MOT's you're right, while you have testers that test every type of car, they will always fall down in some areas, particularly when so much is down to the interpretation of the tester. Most don't know how to check P6 top and bottom (particularly top) ball joints, for example.
 
#11
Gentlemen,

Spoke to Ian this morning and my Daughter ordered the parts from him this afternoon, hopefully will have to spend saturday sorting it all out, thanks for your help.

Martin P
 
#12
campingstoveman said:
Would it not be worth the effort to replace the seals and regarding the point of not leaning on the car I assume this is so I dont spread the wheels, a well placed rachet strap would retain the assembly when I remove the tube surely.

My ramps are higher than standard and I have lots of room why would I need axle stands?
I use a rachet strap to pull the wheels in when bolting up the driveshafts but temporarily swap the ramp for an axle stand on the side I'm working on, so the wheel can actually move inwards. I assume this would be why?
 

Pilkie

Active Member
#13
When you do the job,dont bother refilling with oil,just cover the whole inner tube section in grease!
Its only about 6" max that slide in and out!!
And make sure you dont tighten the strap till its down on the ground and the vacuum that occurs is bled out by prising up the rubber off the de-dion tube for a few seconds!
Some aftermarket gaiters are pretty thin rubber and are easily damaged when fitting,so be really careful!
The thicker and heavier the gaiter the better!
Ive just scored a NOS boxed Leyland one off ebay,its probably twice as thick and heavy as some ive seen!!!
 

GRTV8

Well-Known Member
#14
Pilkie -does this way youve done the De Dion boot replacement and using grease in leu of oil ,mean I wont need to replace the end seals .Mine is at the moment oil filled and one end seal has failed .im about to get stuck into the job shortly .Your idea sounds better than having seals failing and destroying the boot - regards
 

Pilkie

Active Member
#15
The one on mine was split and it had been fitted with an oil filled type,however there was no oil left!
I stripped it off the car by jacking up the rear drivers side only,supporting the car securely under where the jacking point is,on the strong section of base unit with a bit of wood to spread the load,leaving it with wheel off ground.
You can then easily remove the tube,remove gaiter,seperate the 2 sections,give it a clean and a good greasing and re-assemble.
Dont bother with new seals,ive replaced my gaiter 3 times in 11 yrs,last time with a good heavy duty original,and grease is as good as when I put it in,but I always re-grease anyway!
As the grease isnt liquid also it doesnt get hot enough to leak as it slides in/out.
Took me about an hour from start to finish!
 

Pilkie

Active Member
#17
And no need to disconnect the drive shafts either!
"Just the bolts round both ends of the tube" :wink:
There is enough movement so you can lever the de-dion elbow away from the tube bolts on the d/side enough to remove it.
Dont try it on the n/s as there is a 2" tube long insert that has to slide out.
The whole de-dion tube can be stripped,cleaned,greased and re-assembled with the boot on the bench then refitted.
As mentioned earlier,once its fitted and down,only then tighten the last boot cabletie once the vacuum is purged!
ps Ive never seen one with,as has been mentined,a small hole in to relieve air pressure,and ive examined the new leyland one I have and cant see one!
 
#18
Gentlemen,

Thanks to your musings I put the Rover on Ramps at the rear this morning and removed the tube and apart from damaging one of the stud threads which I had to run a Die Nut down the whole job was done in a couple of hours including avoiding the monsoon rain.
I will refill with oil in the morning as I ended up soaking wet trying to get finished as the heavens broke again.
I also used a large tie wrap as the metal clamp disintigrated and I didnt have any Jubilee clips to hand.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Martin P
 

Pilkie

Active Member
#19
Just grease the whole inner assembly!!
Oil will find the lowest point and eventually it will seep out!
The grease,I use good old LM,stays put and constantly lubes all parts of the tube!
 

Dave3066

Well-Known Member
#20
I did the boot on my de-dion tube this weekend. Couldn't get the car on the ramps because the exhaust fouls the near side ramp and my jack won't go high enough (time for a new jack I think :D ....well any excuse for a new toy :D ) so I jacked the rear of the car up and put it on stands. I kinda liked having the suspension hanging as it gives good clearance to get to the tube plus I wanted to diagnose a slight rear end knock that turned out to be lower shock bushes :cry: better add that to the list......one off, one on at the moment....the list of jobs that is. My DD tube was oil-filled and the oil seemed to be coating all surfaces well, but I cleaned it up and greased it a-la "pilkie method" :D so we'll see how that does. I used a screw jack and a long pole to push the wheels apart for re-fit and the job's a good un!

Next :D

Dave
 
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