Car getting harder to start

jamesdean2112

jamesdean2112

Active Member
Hello everyone

As well as the battery draining as posted in the electrics section, my three thousand five is getting a lot harder/slower to start.
It takes quite a few tries with the choke out to get going. Sometimes when the engine fires up, the car shakes and the engine sounds like it isn't firing on all 8. Other times like this morning, the car took a while to start but it started smoothly at a good tick over. Just had a new battery put in her, with the mild weather i thought the car would be better at starting. Sometimes i can smell petrol on acceleration too. All this aside when the engine is running i have no problems with her. she runs very smooth. But after a decent run the idle tends to be around 1100 rpm on the old tachometer plus at full chat i think she is holding back on power a little bit and i can't seem to feel the kickdown working. Plus the engine still makes a ticking noise under acceleration. Not sure if this is tappets? if so would this be a big job. The engine has done just over 43000 mile so im hoping i don't have to replace the cam or lifters.

When the Bowes Rally has been past i will be starting the restoration. With regards to engine i plan to:

Take out and do top end rebuild with new gaskets
Maybe fit a higher pressure oil pump
Fit new timing chain and cogs
rebuild Carbs
Plus other things might have a look at rebuilding fuel pump.
fit new spark plugs
fit powerspark HT leads
Fit new coil
Perhaps fit cone style air filters in side the original air box.
Still undecided on opening exhaust muffler or resonator.
Hope to get it tuned with the right needles on a rolling road too.

Since buying the car i have replaced the oil/oil filter, fuel filter, air filters, breather filter and fitted new flame traps. Washed the pipes to them out in petrol.

Do you think the tasks i have planned will sort my starting problems?
Any help on this would be appreciated

Many thanks
James
 
In answer to your last question first , Yes , i expect what you have planned will sort any problems you have as you will be putting it back to factory original , plus a little :wink: The steel gears will liven it up , putting the cam timing back where it should be .Don't be overly worried if the cam and tappits need doing , it's not the end of the world , and something to think about if you have the timing cover off any way . You can pick up a 3.9 cam ( the default choice ) new lifters and steel timing kit from V8 tuner for 200 quid .
Your slow starting could be a weak fuel pump , ( among other things ) I find with mine , if i put it away hot after a long run it'll take a bit of turning over to pump the fuel up the next start up when it's stood over night . i think the fuel evaportates in the bowls from the heat spike when you shut it off , ( hence my looking into an electric fuel pump conversion , quicker starting ) other times it'll fire straight up .
A full carb rebuild would be a good idea in any case , as irrespective of mileage it will be full of 40 odd year old O rings , seals , gaskets etc , and the shut off needle valves could be the cause of your fuel smell ( also have a look at the tank filler connections in the boot if it's doing it under acceleration ) Carb rebuild is easy weekend project .
Your kick down really needs to work as it controls more than just kicking down , it controls the internal pressures of the box . Harvey is yr Man for that , he may read this and advise , if not post specific questions in the gear box section . For starters make sure the fluid level is right , then be looking for slack in your throttle linkage . To test if it works drive along easily in top at 20 or so mph then plant your foot right down into the carpet ( have a good look in the mirror first :shock: )
Finally all you've said you want to do can be done with the motor in the car unless you have some reason for taking it out ?
Stina :D
 
My first port of call would be checking your ignition is all ok and setup as per the book. Points, plug gaps etc etc.
 
Hi James,

Just refresh my memory, are you still running points? If so, and in combination with the ignition timing as Quagmire already mentioned, I would be checking there first.

The smell of petrol could eminate from a number of areas, leaking fuel pump, fuel filter, reserve tap etc or from the carburettors themselves which no doubt need an overhaul.

The milage on your Rover is very low indeed given its age, and herein lies a problem, which is not of your making as you are just a recent owner. The best thing you can do to keep your engine and everything else on the car working properly is to use it. Drive it often and over long distances, not just a few thousand miles per year. The Rover V8 will run well over 150,000 Miles in standard factory trim, so at your current rate, how long will it take you to reach that milestone?

Ron.
 
Thank you very much every one :) this is a big help!

to cover a few questions, I am taking the engine out for two reasons, to repaint the engine bay and clean/paint the engine. However the main reason is because i can't get the gearbox dipstick into the tube, there is a blockage which a lot of you think will be a rubber ring of some sort. I can't take the filler pipe off while on the car, so my gearbox fluid levels are kind of unknown at the moment. :(

Ron, my car is running an electronic ignition fitted by a previous owner. I'm not too clued up on the tuning of one of these, i have my eye on a timing gun on Ebay.

I think this car has spent a lot of its life sat around. 35000 mile was reached in it's first 6 years according to my earliest MOT cert. it has now done 43000 miles. So i am thinking the starter motor and ignition will be getting a bit tired from the sudden use. What performance ignition coils do you recommend?

I have been driving the car every other day. Did about 60 mile in her to a friends this weekend. When i have done what i want to do i will use the car a lot. Would be nice to get the car rebuilt this year, then have a good year or 2 etc driving her and taking her to shows without worrying about her breaking down

For now i am not trying to get her running perfect because in a month or so from now i will be hopefully putting her on stands in a gazebo to do a rebuild. So i am looking at slowly collecting the parts i need for the restoration and working out what i need to help the problems. This will help a lot in the final tuning when i have freshened the engine up. As long as i am not causing it any damage now?

I was thinking of a possible fuel pump rebuild Stina, to see if it helps. Thanks a lot for the advice, the cam and lifters etc is tempting. I can't think of what else the tapping could be from.

Thanks for the advice everyone!
 
jamesdean2112 said:
I was thinking of a possible fuel pump rebuild Stina, to see if it helps. Thanks a lot for the advice, the cam and lifters etc is tempting. I can't think of what else the tapping could be from.

Thanks for the advice everyone!
Click to expand...

Worn rocker gear and shafts due to a dry top end ? Have a look under the rocker covers for any sign of a poor oil feed ( something they're prone to if the oil isn't changed regularly ). Don't worry though , it's easy enough to restore flow , and new rockers and shafts are available from V8 tuner and others at around 100 quid :D
 
jamesdean2112 wrote,...
So i am thinking the starter motor and ignition will be getting a bit tired from the sudden use.
Click to expand...

Quite the contrary James, the use will indeed improve their functionality. :wink:

The tapping sound that you mention is most likely from a tappet. When they stop rotating, rather than following the eccentricity of the lobe, the lifter will beat against the lobe resulting in damage to both. Little use and infrequent oil changes will see to that.

What brand of electronic ignition has been fitted? Once they have been initially set, they don't go out of tune. Using a timing light, not only can you ensure that the initial timing is correct (which is disctinct from the the set up of the electronic ignition) but you can also ascertain whether there is wear and to what extent of the timing set.

If you disconect the line joining the top of the fuel filter, then crank the engine over, you'll see how efficiently or not your fuel pump is working. It should shoot fuel up into the air a good 6" or more with little difficulty from cold.

Ron.
 
Leaking exhuast manifold can make a tapping noise. Check your manifold bolts are torqued to head correctly, a nice easy fix if these are loose :D
 
Quagmire said:
Leaking exhuast manifold can make a tapping noise. Check your manifold bolts are torqued to head correctly, a nice easy fix if these are loose :D
Click to expand...
Yep, and it's usually the one behind the brake master cylinder heat shield.
 
thanks a lot Ron. i think it is a Lumenition, that what it says on the little silver box. the fuel filter pipe is a great trick, i love how you all have these little procedures of checking things, it helps a lot.

cheers guys ill bare that in mind with the manifolds,will have a look with the torque gun at some point, ive got it all written down in the book. i'm hoping to paint them when the engine comes out, would adding gaskets stop leaks or doesn't it matter with cast Iron ones.

Thanks again everyone.
Today as the sun was shining i got home from work and got the car started for a run out and much to my surprise, she fired right up in about 4 goes without the choke :!:
She has never done this before, it must be the very mild weather and most likely because i started this topic haha. She still ticks however and i had the oil light flickering on me today at the top of a big hill. not sure what this means, is it pressure? Only did it for a few seconds. the temp was dead in middle of the green today which is hotter than normal so the hill would have given it a work out, she got some fresh air on the way down.

If any of you are attending the bowes event i would appreciate you're thoughts on my cars sounds. She makes a whurling noise too after being run for a bit, can't describe where it comes from or what it sounds like. Does it only when the car is moving.

Thanks again
 
Hi James,

With Lumenition, to make sure that it is set correctly, take a feeler gauge and measure the clearance between the tip of the chopper and its closest point to the optical eye support bracket. You'll see exactly what I am refering to when you pop the distributor cap off. The distance should be 1mm (in round figures 40 thou). To adjust the clearance, wind in or out the hex shaft that protrudes from the side of the distributor body.

The oil light certainly shouldn't come on at the coolant temperature that you indicated, especially when the engine is off idle. Does your Rover have an oil pressure gauge? If so, what did it indicate? If not, I would change the oil warning light switch just so as to eliminate it as being a possible cause. It is also the easiest item in which to correct in this regard. You'll find the switch down on the oil pump front cover.

What engine oil are you running, and when was it and the filter last changed? What brand of oil filter are you using?

Ron.
 
Thanks a lot Ron will have a look at that tomorrow if the weather is nice. The oil light came on as i was slowing down and flicked when i was reversing the car about. It didn't come back on after. Thanks for that.
No Pressure gauge, think that must have been for S2 cars. The oil i am using is Castrol Classic, the stuff designed for old engines. I changed the oil and filter less than 200 miles ago. the oil level is three quarters of the way to the high mark on the dipstick while checking cold.

Thanks
 
Oil pressure relief valve sticking open ? Worth removing it and cleaning it in thinners . You'll need to spin the oil pump up with a drill to re prime the system after , just pull the dizzy out and make a tool to turn the shaft , or you can buy a dedicated one from rimmers and the like you may be lucky and it'll prime by turning it over on the key with the king lead removed . It's another thing they're prone to ( especially if they've been stood or had irregular oil changes ) :D
 
I just remembered James that you mentioned in your initial post that you were looking at changing the coil. With Lumenition fitted, you must use a coil designed to run with a ballast resistor, so the primary resistance will be in the order of 1.5 ohms. The combined resistance of the ballast resistor and the primary coil resistance is in the order of 3.0 ohms.

Ron.
 
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