Camshaft replacement
- Thread starter glen
- Start date
Hi Glen
You are correct that it is a very good idea to change the timing chain and sprockets at the same time as the cam. Don't buy OE type chain and sprockets, buy a good quality steel, preferably duplex, set. These are much better quality than the Rover original!
You should always change the hydraulic lifters, or cam followers, at the same time as a cam. The two "wear in" together and if they are replaced separately the older ones will destroy the newer ones. They exchange metal between them, so that there is some cam metal incorporated into the surface of the lifters and vice versa. Ending the partnership always leads to rapid - a few thousand miles tops - destruction of the new arrival!
Starting the engine after the cam change for the first time is also likely to be nerve jangling. You should have applied a running in paste to mthe cam and first turn of the key demands a continuous run at 2,000 rpm for 20 minutes....
The three obvious V8 specialists to buy from are V8 Tuner, Real Steel and RPi. Personally I prefer V8 Tuner, their advice is always at your level and they also sell Crower Cams, which are by far the best quality.
Your key question is probably what cam do you want? Original spec are generally not available, so you will need to make a decision as to whether you want your engine to be torquier - at the expense of top end power, or more powerful and revier - at the expense of low down torque.....
Chris
You are correct that it is a very good idea to change the timing chain and sprockets at the same time as the cam. Don't buy OE type chain and sprockets, buy a good quality steel, preferably duplex, set. These are much better quality than the Rover original!
You should always change the hydraulic lifters, or cam followers, at the same time as a cam. The two "wear in" together and if they are replaced separately the older ones will destroy the newer ones. They exchange metal between them, so that there is some cam metal incorporated into the surface of the lifters and vice versa. Ending the partnership always leads to rapid - a few thousand miles tops - destruction of the new arrival!
Starting the engine after the cam change for the first time is also likely to be nerve jangling. You should have applied a running in paste to mthe cam and first turn of the key demands a continuous run at 2,000 rpm for 20 minutes....
The three obvious V8 specialists to buy from are V8 Tuner, Real Steel and RPi. Personally I prefer V8 Tuner, their advice is always at your level and they also sell Crower Cams, which are by far the best quality.
Your key question is probably what cam do you want? Original spec are generally not available, so you will need to make a decision as to whether you want your engine to be torquier - at the expense of top end power, or more powerful and revier - at the expense of low down torque.....
Chris
stina
New Member
Is your car auto or manual ? If auto you don't want to loose any bottom end torque . I recently fitted a 3.9 land rover spec cam to mine , pretty much the default choice now , SD1 heads , and duplex chain and gears , goes very well :wink: I got the cam from V8 tuner , ( John ) he's very easy to deal with . I already had the chain and gears , but he was doing a kit with uprated gears/chain , 3.9 cam , lifters , and all the gaskets and the metric cam bolt for in the region of 200 quid .
Just to point out though , as Chris York said you do need to run it in on completion , but not at a constant 2k rpm that wont do it any good , rather vary the revs between 1800 and 2200 rpm for the 20 minute period , but don't let it drop much below that .
( sorry Chris
)
Just to point out though , as Chris York said you do need to run it in on completion , but not at a constant 2k rpm that wont do it any good , rather vary the revs between 1800 and 2200 rpm for the 20 minute period , but don't let it drop much below that .
( sorry Chris
)Thanks for the advice I have a V8S series 2. How difficult a job is it? I can do the average jobs like brake pad oil and filter changes bleed brakes but I have never taken on a job of this size. How long should I give myself?
I quote nervous about starting something I can't finish!
Regards
glen
I quote nervous about starting something I can't finish!
Regards
glen
Book time for camshaft replacement is 7.55 hours. I can't see any reason why it's that long tbh, but even if you doubled that, with all the parts to hand and not running into any problems you should get it done over a weekend. The problems you might encounter are the timing cover bolts shearing, and removing the camshaft to find that the bearings it runs in are worn out.
Roughly speaking it's a case of removing:
Rad.
Distributor.
Crank pulley.
Timing cover.
PAS pump bracket. (If fitted)
Timing chain and gears.
Sump. (Optional)
Inlet manifold.
Rocker covers.
Rocker shafts.
Pushrods.
Roughly speaking it's a case of removing:
Rad.
Distributor.
Crank pulley.
Timing cover.
PAS pump bracket. (If fitted)
Timing chain and gears.
Sump. (Optional)
Inlet manifold.
Rocker covers.
Rocker shafts.
Pushrods.
Hi Glen,
Just out of curiosity, why do you feel that your engine's camshaft (and of course lifters) require replacing? How many miles has your engine covered?
Ron.
Just out of curiosity, why do you feel that your engine's camshaft (and of course lifters) require replacing? How many miles has your engine covered?
Ron.
Dave3066
Well-Known Member
Sounds much the same as mine Glen. Mine had done around 140k miles and was sounding rough at the bottom end before I removed it for a complete rebuild. I didn't need to use a puller for any of the pulleys on mine. Replacing the camshaft bearings requires specialist tools as the bearings are not all the same size. It's also not a job I'd want to do with the engine in the car. Have a look here about halfway down this thread on the P5 forum..
Dave
Dave
Don't shout Glen!
I ask as your answer is of benefit to everyone, so others can see that you are doing things for the right reasons, rather than doing something just for the sake of it.
Ron.
I ask as your answer is of benefit to everyone, so others can see that you are doing things for the right reasons, rather than doing something just for the sake of it.
Ron.
westOz74P6B
Member
MAYBE GLEN LEFT HIS CAPSLOCK ON UNTIL HE realised, opps, I've done the same!!
Something I like to point out when I see people are removing timing cover bolts, and that is, to be aware that, of the four long bolts that bolt through the timing cover into the block, you may find that (looking from the front) the lower righthand thread has a tendency to break through into the water jacket (as there is not as much metal at this tapped thread compared to the other three) causing this bolt to rust in the thread making it hard to undo. But when you refit this bolt and you have a thread that has broken through to the water jacket it will be best to apply some gasket sealant to this thread and bolt to prevent any leakage and future rusting. Or as I have done, fitted studs instead of the bolts.
Regards,
Scott
Thanks for all the advice. I have had the water pump replaced recently and two studs used as the bolts broke. I hope that at least one of them is the bolt you mentioned! And you are right I did leave the caps on by mistake. I will wait for better weather and a few days off before I attempt the job. I hope it goes well as I have n't tackled anything this big before!
Glen
Glen
stina
New Member
Hi Glen .
As Harvey said it's pretty straight forward if you don't have any problems with the front cover bolts . It's only the 4 long ones through the water pump that usually give problems , as you've done the water pump recently you should sail through it . One thing not mentioned is you will need to raise the front of the motor slightly to clear the valance when withdrawing the cam . All easy stuff , and we can talk you through it as you go . I'd consider an oil pump upgrade kit while i was in there . Real Steal , about 70/90 quid when i did mine ( cant remember exactly )
Stina
As Harvey said it's pretty straight forward if you don't have any problems with the front cover bolts . It's only the 4 long ones through the water pump that usually give problems , as you've done the water pump recently you should sail through it . One thing not mentioned is you will need to raise the front of the motor slightly to clear the valance when withdrawing the cam . All easy stuff , and we can talk you through it as you go . I'd consider an oil pump upgrade kit while i was in there . Real Steal , about 70/90 quid when i did mine ( cant remember exactly )
Stina
vaultsman
Well-Known Member
glen said:
Hi Glen,
Not too difficult a job, just be sure to allow at least 50% contingency on your time budget (and cash as well!
)This was my effort on Occie from a few years ago...
http://www.classicroverforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=5133
Good luck, and you'll find plenty of help on here as you work through the job if you need it.
Stan
stina
New Member
WarrenL said:
Hi Warren .
I'd say well , i know someone'll be along in a bit and say how well theirs goes with a 4.6 in it !
For what i put into it time and cash wise i'm more than pleased though . I did go a funny way about it out of necessity , as in visiting the inside of the front cover , and the heads twice due to having to deal with issues before i was ready to do the cam and head swap . So i ran it for a while with just the oil pump and timing gear upgrade . I think the timing gear really livens up an older motor , dealing with the stretch in the chain and pulling the timing back into line . Also i'm comparing it to how it was before ,( although it was no where near worn out ) i don't know how it would of gone with a new but standard cam , and the heads reconditioned .
All i can say is it's quite indecently quick off the mark for an auto , and flies when the kick down is used , on the other side of the coin it's still really torquey and roll on acceleration is amazing .
The total spec is .
3.9efi cam ( new lifters )
uprated oil pump
steel timing gears and double row chain
SD1 heads
free flow filters inside original canister
"S" exhaust manifold and 3inch stainless system
electronic ignition
Carbs rebuilt
It all seems to work together and makes a nice package .
Hope that helps
WarrenL
Active Member
Thanks for that, Stina. With the ZF project now put to bed I'm considering what I might do in the future to pep the car up a bit. The dear old tub isn't by any means an embarrassment getting away from the lights, but for a 3.5 litre V8 it doesn't exactly set the world on fire. Considering the ease with which more power can be coaxed from the Rover V8 it's well worth going over what others have done and taking it from there. Apart from electronic ignition, Brown Rover's engine is absolutely standard and untouched. It's in good tight condition, and the camshaft looked great when I had it exposed to the light a couple of years back, but I wouldn't rule out a 3.9 cam and new lifters/timing gear being installed to give me a bit more oomph when I'm accelerating down the motorway.
GRTV8
Well-Known Member
Warren
I can endorse the extra oomph from just doing a new timing chain and sprocket .
After 40 years the old chain had stretched around 10-15mm [ quess] and the new fitment made the "old girl [ Stina's words ] pick up her skirts."
A very cheap exercise $ wise , for the result .
There's always a couple listed on trade me. I went for the standard chain . Seller took ten days to send it which pee'd me _ God Ive got to let go these insignificant trials that confront me - no one died . Why did I even mention that bit ?
Gerald
I can endorse the extra oomph from just doing a new timing chain and sprocket .
After 40 years the old chain had stretched around 10-15mm [ quess] and the new fitment made the "old girl [ Stina's words ] pick up her skirts."
A very cheap exercise $ wise , for the result .
There's always a couple listed on trade me. I went for the standard chain . Seller took ten days to send it which pee'd me _ God Ive got to let go these insignificant trials that confront me - no one died . Why did I even mention that bit ?
Gerald