autobox slipping - further development.

B

bbrich1968

New Member
Ive alredy posted this on the welcome site but Harvey P6 has advised me to post here also.

74 v8 auto originally slipping in second gear only,
fluid level fine, gearchange 1st to 2nd at approx 20-25 mph,
2nd to 3rd at approx 35-40mph, kickdown working well but second gear slipping.

My first p6, so waiting for a workshop manual to arrive before i play with it properly, took Harveys advice and tried drive in second only and its slow to pick up and slipping not just in second but now in all forward gears.

Any ideas pointers in the right direction, fluid is pink and level seems ok and it doesnt smell burnt.

Does anyone know of a decent borg warner man in or very near to Manchester?

Any help will be much appreciatted.
Cheers Rich.
 
If you pull away in "2" and it slips that is second gear start, in "D" or "1" is first gear if it slips in first as well the normal suspect is the front clutch. Top doesn't use exactly the same clutches or bands as 1st and 2nd but the front clutch is engaged for all forward gears.
First gear uses the front clutch, second the front clutch and band, but problems with the clutch can start with second as it is trying to pull a higher gear.

Can you just say which side the dipstick for the transmission is situated under the bonnet so we know for certain what box we're dealing with.



Edited By harveyp6 on 1205778093
 
Which side of Manchester are you on ?

There is a chap just off the A6 between Wigan and Bolton, can't remember the name at the moment but the garage is located:-

Come off the M61 at the Reebock junction head towards Wigan / A6, at the roundabout turn left and then go straight through the lights down the A6 towards Westhoughton.

About 100 yards past the lights is an industrial estate on the right. The garage is on this small industrial estate.
 
Hi, dipstick is on the passenger side back of the engine bay.

When the engine was cold this morning it drove as normal fine in first, slipping in second but able to make progress and strong in third. Once it warmed up slipping was evident in drive in all gears and also when i went into 2 and 1 individually. As i nursed it home the bottom 2 gears in drive were whining at me aswell. Sounds to me like it is low on fluid but the dipstick is reading almost double the cold mark?

Makes me wonder if its got the correct box on it, the box is not dropping any fluid which would indicate it is not full.

I'm gonna try to get it up and have a look at it this evening, but with no manual as yet i wont really know what im looking at .
 
keanej said:
Which side of Manchester are you on ?

There is a chap just off the A6 between Wigan and Bolton, can't remember the name at the moment but the garage is located:-

Come off the M61 at the Reebock junction head towards Wigan / A6, at the roundabout turn left and then go straight through the lights down the A6 towards Westhoughton.

About 100 yards past the lights is an industrial estate on the right. The garage is on this small industrial estate.
Click to expand...
Hi im five minutes from the M61 and have a spare day tommorrow so will go on a mission to find it,
Thanks for the info.
 
Hi one thing i forgot to mention, twice ive had to stomp on the brakes at approx 50 mph and its locked up, when ive released the pedal the passenger side has stayed locked for a couple of seconds longer. A caliper sticking?

It occured to me that the gearing might be designed for braking aswell, so locking it up might have nudged the problem along or am i going off on a tangent?
 
Sticking brakes can be either sticking caliper or what often happens is that the flexible rubber pipes corrode / break up inside and act like a non-return valve. Very common on the rear.
 
Hi Rich,Rich,Harvey!!!!
Makes you wonder if its the binding brakes that are really the main cause of the problem!!
The tighter they get the harder the engine and box have to work to move it forward!!
It will just about have enough power to overcome the brakes and move the car before reaching the stall speed!!
If it is the brakes binding badly!! its not going to do the box any good at all! it could end up burning the clutch and or bands out!
If you find a quiet bit of road,you can go up and down on for a test,when you have driven it a bit,and done a bit of braking,make sure you are driving it in 'D',and when it seems to be slipping,slip it carefully into neutral and see how quick it stops without braking! if it pulls up quite quick,I would suspect the brakes are the main problem!! I had a very similar fault with mine when the brake master cylinder seal was jamming on!!
BTW!!! You will/should have the borg warner 65 fitted to your car
Dave



Edited By pilkie 0 on 1205791541
 
Just had it up on a set of dubious old rusty ramps to have a quick look, exhaust on passenger side of the box, selector cable on drivers side of the box, didn't stay under too long for fear of making my children orphans.

The bottom of the box is a nice stained pinky copper colour and is a little wet so box is leaking slightly.

If i cant find this garage off the M61 tomoz a friend with a garage has offerred the use of his liftramp is it worth me trying to adjust the bands and is it a difficult procedure?
 
The dipstick on the passenger side, and a cable for selection confirms it as a 65 box.

How are you checking the fluid level?

When hot,engine running, run through the range allowing a few seconds in each position, starting and ending in Park, then walk round remove and clean the dipstick then refit to read the level.

Get the fluid level correct before you start adjusting the bands.
But if you do adjust them the procedure is simple enough. And on a 65box both of the adjusters are external.
Now that you've experienced problems in all forward gears my guess is that the front clutch is on the way out, which will be hastened by low fluid level.



Edited By harveyp6 on 1205796820
 
Hi, have been runnning the produre as youve described, do i check the fluid with the engine running or turn it off?
The little owners manual tells me to turn it off.

Cheers Rich.
 
Hi have checked it running and checked it not running, apparantly the way to check it is running. The level is double the cold mark so it would seem its overfull.

First and foremost many thanks for everyones help last night it proved invaluable when ive been talking the professional guys about my problem and gave me a better understanding of how the box works.

The gearbox place in Westhaughton near the Reebok off the M61 is a company called Geartorque
phone no.01942-842468 or
www.geartorque.co.uk

Went up there this morning and it does seem very professional, you could trust them to sort it out for you but it is a bit of a mission from where i am based. Quoted me worst case scenario £ 600 for a rebuild plus refit plus vat so im probably looking at £900 but for that the guy assurred me it would be like new and i beleive them.

Have been given another number for Carvers Transmissions Ltd. Unit 2 Turner Industrial Estate, Turner Street, Denton,
Manchester M34 3EG. 0161-320-3400

No prices quoted yet but spoke to a guy called Graham very knowledgeable and very helpful, asked me all kind of questions have you got reverse, does it drive ok cold etc, etc got a sense that he really knew all about these old boxes. Told me like you guys did that it is probably the front clutch, so not worth adjusting the front bands and to bring it down so he can take a proper look before he can diagnose it properly.

So will take it there next week, why not this week, well im waiting on Baileys Classic Cars to come back to me cause they sold me the motor as driveable and the description was that the auto gearbox works nicely through the gears, well it clearly doesnt so i want them to help me out with the repair whatever that maybe.

Once again guys many thanks for all your help, hope the numbers and details above will be able to help someone in the future.

Does the club keep a database for this kind of thing?

Cheers Rich.
 
Took the sick auto across Manchester following the AA van to Carvers Thursday morning, pretty hairaising driving down the M67 at 25mph and the gearbox whining like mad at me.
will let you know what they come up with.
Cheers Rich
 
£600 plus vat for overhaul and refit. Front and rear clutch, bands worn and torque converter contaminated with oil. They said it looks like it has stood for a while before i have purchased/ran it.

Thats the problem i suppose buying on a whim from ebay even if it is a classic motor dealer.

Not an expert so have to take their word for it and have told them to go ahead.
From the symptoms i have described what do you reckon?

Cheers Rich.
 
My guess is that the fault you have described is in the front clutch, but while the box is out it's best to change all the clutch plates, as well as the steels that go with them, front and rear bands, and there is a diapragm spring in the front clutch that needs a new one, 'cos if it's not broken now, (unlikely) it soon will be, as well as the T/C and all gaskets seals and teflon rings! On dismantling they may well find hard parts that need changing as well.

Hopefully the dealer you bought it from will be making a contribution.

All in all a good price providing they do do all they should do.
 
Got it back today.
diaphram spring you mentioned was apparantly in many pieces, ive got a bag full of cogs and a couple of cirque clip type rings quite large?? Small thin black bands and a few plates that have predrilled holes in them?? Also what looks like the kick down cable havent had a proper look yet at that one could be the selector cable. The guys put ATF gearbox fluid in it, after i picked it up on another of your posts and worriedly asked them not to put dexron in the box.

Car runs fine gearchange is nice and smooth, only thing is though when i put it in park the revs shoot up to 1200 -- 1500 as if its on choke, i vaguely remeber the guy stating that the blah blah on the throttle body will settle down a little with use, will have to ring them tomorrow (today now) to see what they meant. Curse myself for not paying attention but the car came rolling into view at the same time, completely distracted me.

Had to drive back on the motorway, took it nice and easy and let it drift up to 70mph and its fine, havent really blasted it or tried the kick down, just left it in drive and tucked my left foot right away (cant get used to that just yet and have left foot braked a few times, fortunately at low speed).

If you guys can shed any light on the park rev speed, i would be grateful.

Cheers Rich.
 
If the tickover wasn't like it before, then it is likely to be something they've done, but to the engine rather than the gearbox.

If I had to guess (with such limited info) I'd say they might have forgotten to disconnect the kickdown cable when they removed the box, and as it caught up as the box was dropped it's bent the linkage so now making the throttle stick. Either that or they've fiddled with the carbs to get the running better as it drops into gear.

Can't think of anything actually in the box that would do it offhand.
 
Rich,
When you put it into gear, does the car jolt as well? Mine used to tick over at c1k RPM, but since I've had the carbs balanced, she now ticks over at c550RPM and when put into gear, there's no harsh jolting.

Does this mean that we'll be seeing you this Sunday??? :D

Lawrence
 
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