It starts...sometimes!

B

billoddie

Active Member
Hi gents.
Started the 3500 for the first time in about 7 years last week...thanks to some of the replies to my earlier posts.
Just have a slight problem...it cant be relied upon to always start.
The situation is as follows...new battery, and fuel pump reconnected (under bonnet for the present moment).
When the car first started, the first minute or so it sounded quite sick until the tappets filled with oil, and it got into it's stride.
Then it was perfect...30 psi oil pressure, smooth and quiet.
However, without warning, it just seems to go to running on what sounds like 7 cylinders...rough and no throttle response.
If i turn the ignition it starts as usual and is smooth again for about 10 seconds before it repeats the rough running.
If I let it "idle" , it will eventually (about 30 secs) splutter to a halt, with the "ignition" light showing up as it loses its ability to maintain idle (not unusual).
I started it a few more times and had this process happen again and again. I then tested the lights and it died down quicker than usual. With the lights still on, it went completely dead and would not even crank...nothing. (lights still on and interior light still on). OK...i left it for a day or two. When I returned to it, it started first go, but still did its usual no idle/rough running trick. I deliberately stayed right away from the lights, and anything that would put load on it. However, after turning it off, and then trying to restart it...nothing.
Leave it a few minutes...starts. Turn it off...nothing. Leave it a few more minutes...nothing.
So...took the alternator in for testing...perfectly fine.
Which brings us to the present moment.
Any ideas?
Poor connection in ignition?
Starter motor?
 
Hello Bill,

What coil are you running? Have you measured the primary resistance?

As the engine is already running when the rough running comes along, then I would rule out the starter motor.

Ron.
 
Sounds like you may have 2 problems here. If the lights are staying on and it is refusing to crank it could be a solinoid or starter issue, or indeed a loose connection at one or the other. Do you hear a click when the key is turned? Do the ignition lights stay on when you try to crank? I also had an issue on one of mine where it would refuse to crank, or else crank over and start, an immediately cut out when the key was released, which I traced to a dud ignition switch. The same car now occassionally just clicks when the key is turn, but will crank after a few attempts. Next time it dies it might be worth checking the voltage at the +ve connection on the coil. It could also be caused by a lazy relay/solinoid/starter combined with a failing ignition coil as Ron raised.
Regards,
Dave
 
The coil is the old GT 40...seen better days I think. Probably a good start. I haven't measured the primary resistance as I have no idea what that is sorry.
It doesn't have electronic ignition.
I have heard a click before when I turn the key, but more likely there is no sound at all. When the lights were on, and everything went dead, there was a "click", then all stopped. Upon trying to restart, totally nothing.
Came back a few days time...started. When it then stopped, there was a click at times when i endeavored to restart it. Presently there is nothing. The lights do stay on if cranking is attempted.
As Ron mentioned, the coil is probably a good place to look, as it appears in a sorry state. Are these GT 40s OK, or is there a better option?
Also I will investigate those other options too thanks Dave.
Thanks for your help and replies.
 
Hello Bill,

The Bosch GT40 is a 12 volt coil and must not be used with a ballast resistor. Are you still using the ballast resistor which is within the loom or has it been bypassed? With no electronic ignition then the distributor still has points, so there must be a ballast resistor in which case the coil is not the right one.

Ron.
 
Ballast resistor :?
No idea what that is, although it does still have points.
(study up break)
...OK! Ballast resistor...I see that the Rover system is a 9v ignition system by vitue of a ballast resistor in the loom (somewhere)
I dont know if it is still in place or not.
The times (about 6) that it has started, the motor ran perfectly; albeit briefly. Furthermore, it started with literally just a "flick" of the key...just like that one on Youtube. So something is right...just not totally right.
Should I change to an electronic set up? Ignitor? Petronix?
Or just replace coil to the proper one? Will also get auto elec to check those other things that were mentioned.
I'm new to this car stuff, so its all a learning. Although apparently the Rover P6B is a good place to start.
At least I make some progress until I start scratching my head...unlike my Alfa!
I was at the auto trans place today asking about an inhibitor switch for the trans. I mentioned $98 + postage from ebay. He mentioned $300!
He asked what car it was for. When I told him, he said..."You pulled up in an Alfa, and your working on a Rover!!!!! You must be used to expensive parts?
Thing is, its not always the case, particularly, it seems, with these Rovers.
thanks for you reply.
 
It sounds like a blocked fuel line to me, that makes it stop through fuel starvation.
So when it dies, turn off the ignition and check the carbs for fuel.
In HS6s it's very easy as you only have to remove the lids from the float chambers.
With HIF6s you cannot do this, but perhaps you can disconnect the fuel line from the carbs and check there for fuel delivery.
But even then, the jets could be gummed up and blocked inside, it is common in cars that stood for years.
I hope that this helps.
 
billoddie said:
Ballast resistor :?
I dont know if it is still in place or not.
Should I change to an electronic set up? Ignitor? Petronix?
Or just replace coil to the proper one? Will also get auto elec to check those other things that were mentioned.
Click to expand...

Just to clarify a number of your questions above a little further;
With the ignition on check the voltage between the coil +ve and a earth point. If you have 8/9V you still have a ballast resistor.
You may fit an electronic ignition kit and find you still have the same problem so it is best to get her running first - I have done this many times in the past rather than taking logical steps :oops: .
Don't call an auto electrician just yet.

billoddie said:
I have heard a click before when I turn the key, but more likely there is no sound at all. When the lights were on, and everything went dead, there was a "click", then all stopped. Upon trying to restart, totally nothing.
Came back a few days time...started. When it then stopped, there was a click at times when i endeavored to restart it. Presently there is nothing. The lights do stay on if cranking is attempted.
Click to expand...

The click when the ignition is switched on is normal, that'll be a relay.
Turn on the headlights and turn the key to start position - do they dim down or remain the same?
If there is no diming you have a problem with; a) Ignition switch b) Starter relay c) solinoid
If they do dim you have a problem with; a) Dirty/loose battery lugs b) poor earth connection at battery c) dirty main battery connection (+ve) under the drivers foot well.

If it cranks and doesn't fire - check for 8/9V at +ve terminal of coil with ignition on, +12V during cranking.
If it stalls; check for voltage at coil with the ignition on. With the ignition off, remove the dizzy cap, ensure that the points are open, unplug the points lead from the dizzy and check for a short to earth.
Check for spark - if you have testers that fit inline with the plugs and leads it makes it easy, these flash when you get a spark.

I take it that your fuel pump keeps running when the engine stalls? Does it change tone at any point? Would be worth confirming you have fuel flow as demetris said.

Try that much and see how it goes.
Regards,
Dave
 
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