wheel nut size info for rover alloys

jp928

Active Member
#61
Waking this thread up again. Just got a set of SD1 alloys, I think S2, or VDP - mostly smooth faced, not the early fiddly face. Made in Jan 84, part no CRC4603. Nut shanks are 0.68". Cant get a caliper in to measure hole from the rear, but can just get a socket of 0.70 into a clean hole. Does this imply the wheels were hub centred? Going to try imperial 7/16UNF nuts with 0.68 shanks and see how it goes before getting my head in a twist. Will try to measure the rear centre where it might engage on a hub. Sadly 4 of the tyres are 215/65R14, so useless for a P6, but I hadnt banked on them anyway.
I make the rear of the centre hole 58mm dia, a nice round metric no. Contrasts with the nut hole of 0.7", or 17.7mm?
 
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jp928

Active Member
#62
Me again. I have found some 58.1mm hub rings, which should fit the bore in these alloys. Does anybody have the OD of the hub at the mounting face please? Dont have my car yet, due to the @#$%^ virus lockdown - had to wait for caliper kit to come from UK, now current owner has to do the RWC/MOT before I can get my hands on it.
thanks
 

cobraboy

Well-Known Member
#63
I don't think the rear hubs have a OD mounting face, therefore I think alloy wheels are mounted on a lug centric basis rather that a hub centric fitting.
The Minilites I have are not centred on the hub.
 

jp928

Active Member
#64
I realize the rears are a problem, but do you have the front hub diameter at the mounting face please? I have found hub rings with the right OD (58.1mm), ID of 54.1 - how close will these go for the front hub?
Technical people I have spoken to say that wheels that are washer clamped should be hub centric, where wheels fixed with tapered (or round faced) nuts will be stud centered. These SD1 wheels all have signs that at least 8-10mm of the back of the centre bore has been in contact with something.
thanks
 

cobraboy

Well-Known Member
#65
I am not in a position to remove a front wheel and measure for you right now, sorry. I have a powered access platform on hire to do a ton of work.

If you do not get the info I will look into it in a couple of days or so.
 

colnerov

Well-Known Member
#66
Hi, I've gone and had a look and the hub register is 55.5mm. You are aware that the hub nut cover goes over the register? So you will need to fit SD1 hub nut covers which fit inside.

Colin
 

mrtask

Well-Known Member
#67
JP928, do you mean these wheels?

SD1-VandenPlas-alloy.png

I have a set to hand, without tyres, so I could have a go at measuring stuff for you.
I have the right nuts to fit them somewhere too, if photos would help.
 

jp928

Active Member
#68
Yes, those wheels! I make the bore 58mm. there are hub rings with an OD of 58.1 around, in both plastic and alloy, but havent seen any with that ID, but will keep looking. Aware of the cap issue, chasing SD1 caps now....do they have a part no? I am going to try some local 7/16 UNF nuts that claim to have a shank of 11/16 (0.6875") and see how well they locate the wheels.
thanks
 
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jp928

Active Member
#70
Good idea, but....they list 2 sizes of bore, of which 11/16" is closest. But whats the OD ? That would have to be a good fit in the wheel cavity for the washer. Will ask. I make the washer face in the hole 33mm.
thanks
 
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mrtask

Well-Known Member
#71
Apologies in advance, my very approximate measurements are provided in the unit that causes much gnashing of teeth amongst other members here. 32mm overall length, 12mm shank length, 17mm shank width, 26mm washer OD. The nuts have C2 stamped on one flank. The washers are dished or chamfered (or whatever the correct terminology is?) inside on one side. The flat face seats against the wheel.
You'll need SD1 grease caps for the front hubs, or bash the edges of the P6 grease caps until it fits!

SD1-wheelnut.jpg SD1-wheelnut-washer.jpg
 
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jp928

Active Member
#72
Another data point. My wheels came with original SD1 nuts, and they are....0.68 OD shanks, loose as can be in the 0.70 holes. The wheels MUST have been hub centered. There are hub rings of 58.1 OD out there, with 54.1 ID, which is close. Have asked Wolfrace about their washers OD, as this would need to be a good fit in the hole to work. One group out here offers hub rings in allow made to order, so that might work for the fronts as a last resort. Having trouble finding SD1 front hub grease caps....anybody got a pair please? Going to explore sleeving the 0.68 nuts out to 0.7.
Edit:
Having done some more research - dont really like sleeving the undersize shanks etc - new plan is get the 5001T nuts with .73 shanks, and turn them down so they are a nice fit in the wheel holes....If some of them are under their spec size that might be easier than it sounds. Have a small lathe, so it shouldnt be too hard, just a bit tedious...

So much for that plan - Mrtee doesnt have any 5001T, and doesnt know when will get more. Suggested from US - their mail system is busted (2 parcels of mine disappeared there 3-4 April), and their postage is a nightmare. Might have to give it a rest for bit until things loosen up a bit.
What is the thread of the SD1 studs BTW?
thanks
 
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colnerov

Well-Known Member
#73
Hi, Be careful about have the nuts too close a fit in the hole because of galvanic corrosion, even with copper slip or similar, you'll have trouble getting them out again just like it can be with the spigot mounting.

Colin
 

jp928

Active Member
#75
Found some 5001T in US listed as used by Lexus......why would they use a 7/16 UNF threaded stud ? Interested in how well the shanks meet the spec 0.73 OD.
 

jp928

Active Member
#76
Got the nuts from the US - pic below - bit fuzzy but you get the idea. Straight shank is mostly 0.715, the knurled area(to keep the washer captive) is ~ 0.733. First 4 turned down to 0.695 fine, good fit in the wheels, but then I started striking shanks not concentric (3 so far out of 8)with the thread by as much as 1/16" - way too much. Going to go through the whole 20 and see how many are unusable before I go back to the supplier....Using a brand new bolt with head cut off in the lathe, and have checked the end is true within a few thou.

Edit - 5 out of the 20 finished up with unacceptable eccentricity - have contacted supplier, waiting for a response....
Edit - Supplier is replacing the dud nuts, and have asked that they inspect first, and preferably run them up a stud and watch for the shank oscillation....

Edit Aug 21- Nuts arrived - sent Jun20! 6 nuts, none of them any better than those I rejected. I did ask them to inspect for eccentricity, but some are ~0.060" out. Stay away from EZ Accessory in USA for these nuts, probably from China.
 
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#77
I have been going through old threads looking ideas for replacement wheel nuts for the SD1 Vitesse alloys that I fitted four years ago. I did a write up for P6ROC Magazine back then, an edited version of it follows. Can anyone suggest a source of chromed wheel nuts that will fit my set-up of Vitesse alloys and M12 studs?

New SD1 Vitesse Wheels for GWEN

I had a set of SD1 Vitesse wheels fully refurbished from an abandoned project. The tyres on GWEN were over 10 years old and showing their age. I decided it was time to put the Vitesse wheels on. A few months back I spotted a set of 4 Kingpin tyres that fit the Vitesse wheels and were the correct size for GWEN. I got them for £80. When I picked them up, two were heavier. As they are remoulds it is likely that the heavier ones had van tyre carcasses. These will go on the back axle as the higher unsprung weight will have less impact than on the front. I will upgrade the tyres when I have finished the restoration work.

I also looked at the various combinations of wheels studs and nuts that work with the Vitesse wheels and P6 hubs. There was also the issue of centring the wheels on the hubs as I did not want to rely on the sleeves of the wheel nuts. I decided to go with original SD1 Vitesse wheel nuts and new metric studs. This avoids the issue of finding new 7/16” UNF nuts with the correct shank size.

For the front, I used the hub nut covers with the top hat flange cut off to centre the front wheels. This is not an interference fit so I am not convinced that the front wheels are correctly centred as I get some vibration at speeds over 70mph. I will get the wheels re-balanced first to see if that is the cause. If not, I will have to look at a custom turned hub nut cover.

For the rear, I had stepped spigots made that were an interference fit into the wheel centre and a push fit into the rear wheel hub recess. I had to trim back the locking washer slightly to get the necessary clearance using a Dremel.

The existing studs came out surprisingly easy from all hubs. I sacrificed a wheel nut, spun partially onto the end of the studs and a single sharp tap with a calibrated lump hammer freed them off. The new studs M12 x 1.5mm x 47mm long were pulled into place using an oversize nut as a spacer, a heavy washer as a bearing face, an old wheel nut with the matching M12 x 1.5mm pitch thread and a liberal application of grease. A ½” drive ratchet pulled the studs into place very easily. As I was not sure what length of stud was required I purchased 47mm long studs. They were 5mm too long for the Vitesse wheel and nut combination when fitted. The studs were cut back insitu and the ends chamfered with a hand file.

I got a set of original SD1 Vitesse wheel nuts that were in reasonable condition, but the chrome finish was deteriorating. As a temporary measure, I wire brushed them, applied rust treatment and painted them satin black. I would like to fit new stainless steel wheel nuts, but at £12 each they are outside my budget.

As the spigot centres the rear wheels, I may be able to use some of the flat washered alternatives that have an undersized shank. The clamping action of the wheel nuts should stop any minor rotation of wheeI to hub under braking or acceleration. I will need to make sure the front wheels centre correctly on the hubs before I do this. Has anyone any experience in using undersize shank nuts on the Vitesse alloys?

01 Removing studs.JPG 02 Lock tab.JPG 03 Lock tab cut back.JPG 04 Lock tab cut back closeup.JPG 05 Spigot .JPG 06 Spigot.JPG 07 Spigot in place.JPG 08 Spigot and hub.JPG 09 Stud insertion tools.JPG 10 Stud insertion.JPG 11 Studs in place.JPG 12 Wheels fitted.JPG Rover P6 Vitesse Wheel Spigot.jpg
 

Barten

Active Member
#79
Can someone tell me which nuts are correct to use on rostyle wheels? The long ones as is used with the s-trim, or the shorter ones?
 

jp928

Active Member
#80
Update from my experiment. I got 16 very good nuts out of the 26 I got from USA. I used 5 nuts each wheel at the rear, as there is nothing else to locate the wheel. At the front - I found there is a recess of ~ 1mm in the mounting face of the wheels, so I checked that the hub cap flange fitted in there, and would not prevent the wheel sitting completely flat on the hub - a little relief on the cap flanges was done. With 3 good true nuts on each front wheel, and 2 slightly loose poor nuts, did some road testing. Newly mounted and balanced tyres - no signs of vibration, up to 50mph. Feels good.
 
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