What pushrod is this?! And also: why won't it shift into gear?

Bram TR

Bram TR

Member
Silly, I know. I've replaced my clutch cylinder with a new one, quite some time ago. And now I can't remember what it looked like. I mean: I found the old stuff that came out, but I can't figure out what the pushrod shown on the pic was for. It sure isn't the one going to the pedal, so what is it?! Where did it come from?
Pushrod.jpg

Another thing: with new master and slave cylinder in place, and having bleeded the system, the pedal won't release the clutch - I can't shift into gears. Could this be just a matter of adjustment of the pedal? (Note: the car hasn't run in about 20 years, so maybe things inside the gearbox have gotten sticky? ...)

Thanks in advance!
 
Assume this is a 4cyl? if the pedal trunnion fits the big ring on that pushrod, its probably the pedal pushrod. NO, master cyl pushrod is long, plain, threaded at one end. Slave cyl pushrod is also plain, threaded at one end, shortish. Clutch probably frozen to the flywheel. Check that the operating lever moves as expected at the box. Some suggest putting it in gear with engine stopped, push the clutch pedal, try to start the engine, hand brake on hard, maybe wheels chocked.
 
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jp928 said:
Assume this is a 4cyl? if the pedal trunnion fits the big ring on that pushrod, its probably the pedal pushrod. NO, master cyl pushrod is long, plain, threaded at one end. Slave cyl pushrod is also plain, threaded at one end, shortish. Clutch probably frozen to the flywheel. Check that the operating lever moves as expected at the box. Some suggest putting it in gear with engine stopped, push the clutch pedal, try to start the engine, hand brake on hard, maybe wheels chocked.
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Thanks for your response. Not sure what a 'pedal trunnion' is, I'm still working on my English Rover vocabulary ;-) but I don't think I've dismantled anything at the pedal. It really annoys me, because it gives me the idea that I just forgot to reinstall something ... And I can't find this typical pushrod on any pic in the Haynes workshop book.

Starting the engine is not really a possibility; getting it to run is a challenge that is further down on my list ;-)
 
The pushrod in the photo does not normally belong to your car. It looks like a home made special with the eye fitting over what used to be the pedal trunnion, or an ordinary bolt.
Probably someone did such a conversion (butchering?) in the past either in your car or in another Rover to overcome a possible destroyed thread in the trunnion or the original pushrod. (The trunnion is the internal threaded part that is fitted to the end of the clutch or brake pedal and the original pushrod screws into. This is how the pedal height is adjusted. With the modified pushrod there is no provision for pedal adjustment.
Note that both brake and clutch pedals and master cylinders use the same set up.
 
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quattro said:
The clutch pedal not releasing with the engine stopped, will not stop you from engaging gears.
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No, I know. But it was a reaction to the suggestion made above to get a possibly frozen plate loosened.
Later on, I will get my partner in the car and have her engage the pedal, while I'm under the car to see whether the slave cylinder moves the lever in the box noticeably sufficient (but what is sufficient).
 
Where did the master cyl in the pic come from? Is there one on the car? You need to give us as much info as possible on the car's condition, or we are all guessing in the dark. When the clutch pedal is pushed does it feel normal, as if its doing some work? Can you select any gears ?
 
jp928 said:
Where did the master cyl in the pic come from? Is there one on the car? You need to give us as much info as possible on the car's condition, or we are all guessing in the dark. When the clutch pedal is pushed does it feel normal, as if its doing some work? Can you select any gears ?
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The master cyl in the pic is the old one, it was too far gone on the inside. I have installed a new one and used - as is expected - the old pushrod with the thread at the end. A new slave cyl is also installed, and I have bled the circuit. The pedal feels quite normal: with first a little bit of slack, then some mounting resistance, rising to a peak as if you are climbing a hill, and a ’sort of relief‘ at the end when you go downhill and push the pedal to the floor (sorry if my description doesn’t make any sense). Anyhow, I am then not able to select a gear, there is to much resistance.

Thanks for taking the time to think with me ;-)
 
Hi, Your description of the feel of the clutch pedal suggests it is operating the clutch pressure plate. However that doesn't mean the clutch centre plate isn't stuck on the flywheel, you won't know that until you get the engine running and try again. The inability to change gears suggests something is seized on or in the gearbox, I would start with the gear lever and its linkage.

There are various techniques for unseizing the clutch once the engine is running. We'll come to that later. Get the gear selection sorted first.

Colin
 
colnerov said:
Hi, Your description of the feel of the clutch pedal suggests it is operating the clutch pressure plate. However that doesn't mean the clutch centre plate isn't stuck on the flywheel, you won't know that until you get the engine running and try again. The inability to change gears suggests something is seized on or in the gearbox, I would start with the gear lever and its linkage.

There are various techniques for unseizing the clutch once the engine is running. We'll come to that later. Get the gear selection sorted first.

Colin
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Sounds plausible! Although the gear lever did move at some point in the past - but with the new cylinders in place, it doesn’t. So I‘m afraid I have to look for the cause in my own actions… (By the way, remarkable that it somewhat did work in the past, since both cylinders were on the inside really messy and not working properly!) Anyway, I will turn my attention to finishing the braking system first, and then put the car back on it’s wheels and address the engine. And in the meantime, to be certain, have a look at the gear selection

Thanks for your input!
 
Gear lever not moving is unrelated to the clutch, IMHO. Sounds more like something astray in the lever, its plastic mount, and /or the peg at the front that moves the selector rods.
 
jp928 said:
Gear lever not moving is unrelated to the clutch, IMHO. Sounds more like something astray in the lever, its plastic mount, and /or the peg at the front that moves the selector rods.
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Maybe I describe things not clearly enough; the lever does move (a bit, and from side to side (= neutral)) but it won’t go into gear. So the lever itself is not stuck or anything.
 
You're describing things very well Bram, but I do believe you are missing a point.

If your engine is running and the clutch is not disengaging, or is dragging, then you will get difficulty in engaging gears.

If your engine is not running, the condition of the clutch makes no difference at all to your ability to engage gears. To put it another way, difficulty in putting it into gear is nothing to so with the clutch plate, cover, master cylinder or any other part of your clutch system.

You must have a problem with the selector rods or an internal gearbox issue.

I tend to go over the top with this sort of thing, so would have the box out, but that's me :)
 
Is the car in gear or in neutral? Is the gear lever in the neutral position (which should be leaning slightly forward)?

It is possible with enough wear to the shifter bits to get the forward selector finger out of it's groove in the selector rails. The symptoms are broadly similar. And I don't thing it is a possibilty if it's a series 2 car with the gearshift extension on the gearbox.

Yours
Vern
 
quattro said:
You're describing things very well Bram, but I do believe you are missing a point.

If your engine is running and the clutch is not disengaging, or is dragging, then you will get difficulty in engaging gears.

If your engine is not running, the condition of the clutch makes no difference at all to your ability to engage gears. To put it another way, difficulty in putting it into gear is nothing to so with the clutch plate, cover, master cylinder or any other part of your clutch system.

You must have a problem with the selector rods or an internal gearbox issue.

I tend to go over the top with this sort of thing, so would have the box out, but that's me :)
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That’s an interesting thought! No difference in speed of rotating parts, so coupling the box to the engine should not be a problem. Do I say that correct? Indeed, you can normally engage the gears with the engine at a standstill without using the clutch. So my problems are of a different order.
But my level of ’engineering’ - and the physical capabilities in my garage - fall short when it comes to removing the whole box … And getting it to the specialist becomes a problem, without a running engine and functioning gearbox
I will first take a closer look at the lever, you never know
 
Vern Klukas said:
Is the car in gear or in neutral? Is the gear lever in the neutral position (which should be leaning slightly forward)?

It is possible with enough wear to the shifter bits to get the forward selector finger out of it's groove in the selector rails. The symptoms are broadly similar. And I don't thing it is a possibilty if it's a series 2 car with the gearshift extension on the gearbox.

Yours
Vern
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Hi Vern, the car is in neutral, wheels run free. And the car is a series I (1968, RHD, once imported from GB ).
 
You need a parts book or a WSM so you can see how the lever connects to the box and the selectors.....and then you are going to need to get underneath and see whats what. Have you tried contacting other Rover people in NL? www.classic-rover.nl
 
I'm thinking your issue will be with the selector slot and its matching pin. The gear lever directly operates a rod with an offset up on one end into which the lever goes. Pushing the lever across the gate twists the rod. The other end of the rod is at the clutch end of the gearbox and has a short lever clamped to it, the end of which has a small brass bush which moves in a slot created by the ends of the gearbox's three selector rails. I suspect your issue will be in this area. Essentially, you've probably have two gears trying to engage at the same time, that is there are two of the three gearbox shafts trying to engage a gear. Alternatively one gear may be partly selected but the synchro mechanism wasn't lined up so it jammed up. One common reason for this is the brass bush falling off the end of the little lever

Either way you need to get it out of gear first. A working clutch is a big help as it unloads the gearset in the box. You will find under the carpet on the side of the gearbox tunnel there are big rubber plugs. These can be removed to give you access to the slector slot mechanism and you will be able to see the little lever move in the slot and also see if the slot walls are in a straight line. If one (or two) rod(s) is a bit "in" They will be the jammed ones. You can do this by feel with the gearstick.

One other area which is quicker to check is the ball socket that the gearstick pivots on. They do break causing loss of gears selection. I'd actually check this first if the selection process doesn't have any short throws (pushes forward of back)
M
 
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